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Cam Timing With Head Installed - How To?

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#1 MiNiKiN

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Posted 13 March 2023 - 09:27 AM

 As no one in the know seemed to have read may question I thought I try to discuss this in a separate post.

 

Since the accuracy of the cam timing is so critical, it is important when replacing the sprockets on any classic with after-market parts to check the actual achieved figure and correct it as necessary.

To get the best timing it is best to set the timing with a new chain to 2 degrees advanced from recommended in order to allow for initial chain stretch. That optimises the timing over the life of the chain

The cheap new sprockets and poor quality cheap chains give timing which can be a long way out, but offset keys do solve the problem.

Has anyone got an instruction on how to set timing with the rocker/valve gear installed. Most instructional videos, etc. refer to measurement with the head removed (which makes it easier IMHO).
I also think to recall that Keith Calver states to retard the timing by 2-3 deg, when measuring on the valve shaft. This is supposed to provide for play or flex in the valve mechanism. Any opinions, or better profound knowledge on this matter out there?

Tara

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#2 Hman205

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Posted 13 March 2023 - 03:45 PM

I would still be trying to take a measurement from the pushrod where possible as it will remove the rockers from any variance



#3 Shooter63

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Posted 13 March 2023 - 06:45 PM

Measure the cam timing off the inlet valve, afterall it's valve events you are timing not push rod events, at the worst you will be advancing the cam by the odd degree, and that is a whole lot more preferable than running a retarded cam, especially in an A series.

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#4 Spider

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Posted 13 March 2023 - 06:53 PM

With higher compression and longer duration cams, accurate cam timing becomes more important. Even from the seat of my pants, I can notice a 2 degree difference.

First you want to find TDC. With the head on, this is not the most accurate as it also measures piston rock, which it totally normal to have, but you need to make a Piston Stop.

 

Take an old spark plug, carefully break all the porcelain from it (I'd recommend wearing googles when doing this and be aware the edges of the material can be razor sharp), break the earth electrode from the metal body, then tap a suitable thread (I find an M10 works OK) through what's left of the body. Find a long set screw (this is a bolt that has the thread going all the way to the bolt head) that fits the thread you've just tapped, it will need to be around 60 mm long and you may want a lock nut on it.

Fit your Protractor to your Harmonic Damper and then a wire pointer to be able to read off the crank angle, you want this a little long so you can later bend it to calibrate the Protractor to the Crank Angle, so line it all up at your best judgement around zero at TDC, though don't worry too much about how far off it is, within 10 or even 20 degrees at this point is good enough.

You might be temped to just use the Timing Marker on the Damper and Timing Chain cover, but the Marker on the Damper could be off for a few reasons. You can later check this.

 

Remove your Spark Plugs, bring the engine up near TDC but not quite at TDC. Screw in the Threaded Spark Plug Body in to No. 1 Cylinder, then screw in your Set Screw until it touches the Piston. Lock it off with the Locknut. This is your Piston Stop. Back the Crank / Piston off by turning the Crank by hand, then bring it up to the Piston Stop. You want it firm against it but not hard in to it, be mindful here too that going hard could bend the Set Screw in the Piston Stop.

 

Note down the angle on your Protractor here. Then wind the crank back the other way to the Piston Stop with the same pressure on it as previously used. Note down the Crank Angle indicated here, then average the first and second numbers measured. Remove the Piston Stop, turn the Crank over to that calculated Angle, then move the Pointer to Zero. You now have the Protractor calibrated to the Crank.

From here you can use your Dial Gauge to either measure off a Push rod, the Rockers (not so good) or a Valve Cap to measure your Cam Angles. To check for Peak Lift, if the Cam is a Symmetrical Grind, I'd suggest measuring the angles at so 5 thou before and after peak lift, then averaging them to obtain the peak lift angle. Trying to measure peak lift directly is fraught with inaccuracy as there's some dwell at peak lift.

In regards to allowing for 'fudge factors' I usually allow an advance of 2 degrees when running a chain to allow for settling of the chain in the sprocket teeth. If running a belt, I set them spot on.

If you make your Cam Angle Measurements directly off the Valve Cap you need not make any allowances for any changes in the valve train and if one was to make allowances here, there's many variables to consider - valve spring pressures and this varies depending on the Cam Lift and Springs used, Cam Profile and Lift, Push Rods used, Rocker Shaft used and on it goes - however none of these will change the angle at which the Valve opens and closes at, only the total lift. I wouldn't be making any compensations here.



#5 Cooperman

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Posted 13 March 2023 - 10:25 PM

As Chris says, the only problem with measuring with the head on is establishing TDC as accurately as possible.

I have used a short solid plastic rod with a rounded end through a plug hole with the DTI set on the other end. If you are careful you can get very close with this, certainly OK for a road engine. For a competition I always do it with the head off to get it absolutely spot on.

If fitting a new chain set the cam to 2 degrees advanced from recommended to allow for initial chain stretch.







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