54 replies to this topic

[Jammy]

Please could people try and keep this factual and substantiated if your going to criticise a company.

[minisprint]

Please could people try and keep this factual and substantiated if your going to criticise a company.

sorry james!

[Jammy]

Sorry, wasn't just aimed at you minisprint. Its just that this has become a bit of a hot topic recently, no just within the staff, about people jumping on bandwagons to criticise a company.

[minisprint]

Sorry, wasn't just aimed at you minisprint. Its just that this has become a bit of a hot topic recently, no just within the staff, about people jumping on bandwagons to criticise a company.

i agree but if people are having difficultys with a company or a person it is some times good to get other peoples opinion! could we set up a post for good bad and really bad company to avoid. topic and see how many people have had good and how many have had bad dealing with companys then maybee they may listen as a company! (not aimed at jonspeed)

[Jammy]

Like this one - Parts Suppliers - Good and the bad?

Ideally that would be hundreds of pages long, and you could just search for the name of the company within that topic and you'd get a host of results.

And yea, I agree its always good to get people's feedback on companies, good or bad.

[minisprint]

Like this one - Parts Suppliers - Good and the bad?

Ideally that would be hundreds of pages long, and you could just search for the name of the company within that topic and you'd get a host of results.

And yea, I agree its always good to get people's feedback on companies, good or bad.

yes just like that one! lol

[almichie]

well if i was offered a 50% refund i think at this stage i would be happy. I would still be heavily disappointed but at least i could could get an engine in the car and start enjoying it. They have my number, and if they want to sort something out then all they have to do it call me.

[pickmeup]

I may as well add my two pences worth as I was called up to the rolling road to help Al on the inital Valve seizing due to white metal in the oil!

I have used Jonspeed a few times when I used to live in coventry and they were always pleasent to deal with, however I have always had concerns with there engines after using jonspeed built engines which i had no end of difficulties with, I wont detail the exact problems but sealant was used to block stuff off!

I recently bought a jonspeed built engine second hand of the bay which i was told had around 300 miles on it, on splitting the engine i have been independently informed the crank and 2 pistons are shot and i need to replace them, as i dont know the exact history of the engine i cannot say if the parts were second hand? however i am not as much out of pocket as al!

At the rolling road session when Al was having the supercharger done I inspected the head and was worried about the contaminated oil as seeing white metal is never a good thing, the other issue with the head stud snapping was not good and I have not seen one snap at the specified torque limit before? were the studs 1 use only and were they ARP?? only jonspeed know but as a fully qualified aircraft repair engineer i didnt like the failure of said component!

At the end of the day i had to give al a lift home so he could get his van and trailer due to the engine completely failing, now after 450 miles an engine should not go bang!

I hope that jonspeed and Almichie come to an amicable compromise as it will be best for both parties and I hope that people look at this as a shot across the bow before spending large sums of money with any mini specialist, i am sure that this will not happen again!!

There you go I will now shut up!

[Jammy]

When you say a 'Jonspeed built engine', do you mean you bought the engine directly from Jonspeed 2nd hand, or was it bought from someone who had bought it from Jonspeed?

[minisprint]

Jonspeed’s comments on this matter: (apolgies for the length)

Jonspeed supplied a short engine with just the pistons and con-rods in situ, other parts were not assembled, crank etc.
The customer built the engine and ran it in correctly for 450 miles at which point a ring shoulder on one piston failed. This was agreed to be a manufacturers error not a fitting error which was accepted by both Jonspeed and the customer.
Jonspeed invited the customer to return the engine and Jonspeed replaced the piston at no cost accepting responsibility for the replacement. Jonspeed sent the piston back to the manufacturers for analysis..decision waiting.
The customer reported that one journal on the crankshaft was one thou down, Jonspeed returned the crank to the machine shop that did the job, they found no error or variation but, as a good will gesture, Jonspeed supplied another crank at no cost to the customer.
An additional job done on the engine, by Jonspeed was the fitting of a central oil pickup. These are bought in from a reputable source. It was found that the central oil pick up was fouling the crankshaft, not a problem either Jonspeed or the supplier had encountered, until now.
As Jonspeed hadn’t at any point assembled the engine, and this problem had never been found before there was no way they could have foreseen this.
At this point relationships between Jonspeed and the customer remained amicable.
Jonspeed had also supplied a modified head but didn’t fit it to the engine, this was done by the customer. The engine was correctly run in and did 450 miles before the piston failure.
When the engine was returned, the head was not returned with it.
The allegation is that swarf was found in the head and this was from the original modifying. Jonspeed dispute this as if this swarf was there on fitment, the engine could not have possibly done the 450 miles it did before the piston failed.
The head unit was never returned to Jonspeed, was fitted by the customer and in the customer’s care while Jonspeed had the short engine. The question arises as to how could the swarf have come from Jonspeed as alleged?
The engine was supplied with brand new studs. It is possible that the customer could have sheared one off at 50 lbs/ft but unlikely. Jonspeed did their own tests on calibrated equipment and found the shear point to be between 80 and 100 lbs/ft.
Was the rebuilt engine run with one stud snapped? Jonspeed do not know as they did not fit the head. At this point the customer said that everything was still OK.
The customer was advised to use Southam Mini Centre to carry out the rolling road session as they are extremely experienced in tuning newly built engines and know not to rev the engines over a sensible limit. Jonspeed is not sure if this advice was followed but believe it wasn’t.
On the third run, the crankshaft suffered failure.
The crank was not fitted by Jonspeed so they have no control over the accurate fitting and bedding in.
Jonspeed have stated quite categorically that if they had built the engine, there would be no question about a complete refund.
The customer demanded that Jonspeed collect the car, remove the engine, fix it, get it running, refit the engine and deliver the vehicle back for FREE. Jonspeed reiterated that, if they had built and fitted the engine that is exactly what would have happened.
Jonspeed offered to rebuild the returned engine, at NO labour cost and parts at trade cost, this was not accepted by the customer.
As a result of emails sent and the post on TMF this offer is now rescinded.

can i just ask? Do you work for jonspeed as you know all the facts?

[Bungle]

jake went around to see them because he uses them a lot and wanted to hear both sides of the story

[clubman katie B.F]

have spoken at length with jake about this...having not actually used them i can't comment. it does seem that all mini specialists that are used on a regular basis by members, have at some time had a slating on here, p&l, mini sport minispares, mini speed, moss, surfblue, morspeed, med, etc etc etc. i work in the service industries and deal with unhappy customers from time to time. there is an saying we have:

"If some one is happy with the service we provide they tell a friend, and if they are unhappy they tell ten friends"

I do feel for some of the specialists, especially the ones, that can, at times provide a slow service due to overwhelming work loads, all i can say to that is, if they weren't good, then they wouldn't be busy, and wouldn't be in business.

I do also feel for the honest specialists who are trying to make ends meet, and are let down by faulty components, obtained from a third party, and have seen posts on here regarding such complaints.

The point I am making here is that we have recently been voted the best web based mini forum with several thousand members. so naturally we do have some "clout" in the mini world, and i do feel that the members and moderators have a moral reponsibility, towards the well being of the mini world.

meaning that we need to be careful about what we say and do, as, due to our "clout" it could affect the livelihoods of companies, individuals and families.

if one of your parents lost their business and possibly house due to things that have been said on an internet forum, I am sure you would feel aggrieved.

I am, in no way standing up for p*ss poor traders, i just think we need to be careful what, how and when we say on here.

[minisprint]

jake went around to see them because he uses them a lot and wanted to hear both sides of the story

really carl himself should come to some sort of arangement with al to sort this out as he has had no luck with this engine from day one. Was there any recomendation of using running in oil or the like and recomended running in procedure?Did al get any instruction or a build manual to follow?with the engine kit? the mini should be able to do at least 6000 without needing an oil change so 450 miles is very poor to say the least! prob best to post some pics of the said damage and maybe take the engine to a engine machine shop to get a evaluation done on it with a report of the cause of the faliure stated down in black and white. or take it to med or someone who knows mini engines insideout to help with the probable cause?

[clubman katie B.F]

prob best to post some pics of the said damage

Who are we to judge, based on pictures on the internet?

[minisprint]

prob best to post some pics of the said damage

Who are we to judge, based on pictures on the internet?

who are we not to? there are many clever people on here who may have a valid reason for said damage happerning ,after all it is all speculation to has what has happened any way. we may never know what has really happened! thats why i said to take it to a engine machine shop or specialist!as this is prob going to court he may want to get it in "black and white" and not go on here say! i dont want a aguement over this as after all we all love our mini and i would have hoped we would help each other out!including the traders from time to time!even if they are only in to it for the money! lol