169 replies to this topic

[GreaseMonkey]

I know what your trying to say Cookie. What you have to see is that 99.9% of Muslims are hard working people who abide by all rules and are happy with life in Britain. Its the 0.1% who voice their extremist views of faith which many Muslims themselves do not agree with but unfortunately the majority get tarred with the same brush due to the 0.1%.

[hystrix cristata]

Wow

BBC News

A while ago but essentially 60% of civilian deaths are because Troops are in the country, 20% definitely due to being caused by air strikes.

Payouts for Civilian Deaths

as it says at the bottom of that article if it wasn't our fault we wouldn't pay.

British Troops killed

From the above articles you can see there are more Afghan civilian deaths caused by the UN than there have been deaths of British troops.

Guys, Guys, we've got another one of those who believes everything thats reported by Journalists


And then quotes it

I don't believe all this is true, I actually believe that these articles don't show anywhere near the true figures and that it is much much worse.

[BoboGib]

Emotion runs high when a topic like this comes up. I like to think I am not too biased but i've seen first hand what these insurgants do, and belive me it's not pretty.

Fair enough, I'm trying to give an opinion the other way. I wouldn't normally post in topics like this because I don't particularly care, but too many people jumped on the bandwagon and have said ridiculous borderline racist comments about this when it doesn't seem like they have a clue what is going on.

I know that my comment about troops know they might die will offend people but that is my opinion. If you died in a car crash and it was posted on here then I would think about it and have sympathy for your loved ones etc but if you died in the army I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought, you know the consequences of the job you have chosen to do, just like a lion tamer knows he might get eaten, or a stunt man might burn to death falling from a building, or that idiot who thought he could live with bears but then got ate by one, and even Steve Erwin but he couldn't have seen that one coming.

I have only seen one person on the news whose son died in Afghanistan that I respect and did feel sorry for. There were family members of some other lads that died going on and on about how terrible it was and blaming the government but this bloke said yes obviously he was upset but him and his son knew that if he joined the Army he may be killed. For me that's all it takes

It's your opinion, but I feel it's a little insensitive given the subject. I know everytime I go out there I may not come home, and yes I chose to do the job. But we don't like to be reminded of it. I'd like to think that everyone that has died, has been doing what they wanted to do.

I agree that some of the comments are a bit borderline, but as I've said throughout, they should be alowd to march, just not in Wootten Bassett

[miniman.matt]

Yeah much worse in the carnage that the taliban cause.

Every civilian death by nato is logged and reported and rightly so. But knowere near the amount of murders carried out by the taliban are reported.

Spend 5 mins in afgan and see what the taliban do to thier own people before you spout uter horse croc on this thread.

[BoboGib]

you spout uter horse croc on this thread.

Bit harsh fella. Not everyone has the chance to see first hand and only see what the media want them to see. And as you say, most of the Taliban murders arn't reported.

Edited by BoboGib, 06 January 2010 - 10:49 PM.

[miniman.matt]

Fair one, mabye a bit harsh but i feel i need to get my message through...

[Turbo Nick]

let them march then round em up and let them protest in the middle of the north sea. job done.

if they dislike our country and how we do things that much then they know which way the coast is..

[Retro_10s]

Hi there,.....

There's clearly some very strong views about this subject, however...

This has been now been reported a fair few times by various members of the forum,.. so I feel I must just poke my nose in temporarily to kindly remind everyone that whilst this is naturally going to be a very abrasive subject (and It is almost impossible to avoid a conflict of opinions in these situations) everyone has the right to voice their feelings on the subject, but the way in which you put across your point of views should be constructed in a manner that is non confrontational and is not going to easily cause offence or be taken personally.

I'm not dishing out the warnings and slapping wrists etc, and I'm not going to lock the thread up, It's clearly something you all want to talk about and I'm not about to put the blanket over it. But please remember that people of all ages, with all backgrounds and walks of life are able to read this.

As such TMF expects a certain respects from the members - for the members. Please word your posts accordingly.

Many thanks.
Mike.

[hystrix cristata]

I think this has gone off topic to be honest,

Islam4UK want to march, all I can see is they have said they are going to carry coffins. I would be more bothered that EDL want to march as well

[1984mini25]

I don't see what peoples problems are with them walking through a town where people who have chosen to be in the army and know they could be killed get brought back to after the thing they knew could happen to them has,

I personaly hate how when a british troop is killed it is all over the news

I agree with the second part of the first statement and also hate all the media hype over every solder that’s been killed in action, good or bad.

What i do have a problem with is the first bit of the first statement; I do have a problem with the planed march, it’s just being done to deliberately inflict and rub asmuch salt in to already sore wounds.

Edited by 1984mini25, 11 January 2010 - 10:02 PM.

[miniman.matt]

I think this has gone off topic to be honest,

Islam4UK want to march, all I can see is they have said they are going to carry coffins. I would be more bothered that EDL want to march as well

Thats the point the extremists plan to march on this sacred town has attracted other extremists. If they wouldn't of had this discraceful idea in the first place this wouldn't be happening.

If these people want to clash and shout their rubbish do it away from the town, that is the point of this thread.

[Joe-Richardson]

I am entirely against the march but if it is allowed to go ahead, which I dont think any decent government could allow, then there would be a huge public outcry and more support for the troops doing such a difficult job.

[Ethel]

I wasn't expecting to find this when I logged in!

But I may as well chuck in my tuppenneth's worth since everyone else has...

We could start by looking at where and how our soldiers got killed. We invaded another country on the pretext of protecting ourselves from terrorist attack. Since then we've suffered a handful of terrorist acts, not as far as I'm aware committed by anyone with a direct link to Afghanistan. The number of civilians killed in these attacks is less then a quarter of the number of troops so far lost in Afghanistan. Both figures combined will be far less than the number of innocent Afghans killed as a direct result of the invasion.

I don't doubt that the motives of the majority of our troops in Afghanistan are more honourable than those of the politicians who sent them, or that they will be doing what they can to benefit the ordinary Afghans they meet face to face. I do think it's counter productive to our stated aims and credibility if we value, or even appear to, the lives of our soldiers and citizens above those of the very people we want to discourage from fundamentalism. I suspect this would be the motivation behind any such march in Woottan and I see nothing controversial in stating the loss one innocent person's life is any less tragic than another's.


The Definite Article,

When you say "them" you should be referring to a specified group of people, it is a dangerous disservice you are doing yourselves by applying it anyone who isn't "us", whatever your definition of "us" is. Because someone wants to stand up and speak out in support of people they see as victims of our actions doesn't mean they support another group of people who would wish you harm. Though, deny them any means of expressing their views and it becomes more likely that they will be persuaded support your enemies.

Freedom of speech has been long enshrined in our law, we're constantly reminded that our forbears fought to defend it. Freedoms cease to be freedoms if we think we have the authority to take them away from one another. Your petition has no hope of succeeding in overturning the law but we do already have an inelegant statute to deal with those who support terrorists which could be applied to the marchers if it was justified.

Personally, I'd be happy if there were no further processions of any kind through Wootton Bassett, if we aren't careful the tragedy of those soldiers who have lost their lives will become the reason for remaining in Afghanistan which will serve no one, least of all their living comrades.

[mini_mad69]

I han't read the whole thread. I joined both of the groups on facebook a couple of days ago.

It's disgusting behaviour. Not only does it show the biggest dis-respect to the heros who are out there fighting for them, but there doing it in wooton basset!

Imagine how the families and friends of those who have been lost in service feel, and then an extremist group go and say they died for absolutly nothing!!!!!!!!!! I agree with taffy on this. This country is a joke, being too PC protecting the minorites and ignoring the majorites.

Im not racist, but I hate seeing people unfairly treated. If a group of white people protested something against Muslims, they would be locked up. Yet when this extremist group try it, the government does nothing.


Now whos racist?

[oli8925]

The thing I have against this march is the fact its not at all political. It's not to raise awareness that some people aren't happy, and its objective isn't to be a peaceful march to convey views and feelings. The whole point of this is to increase the tension and feeling of racial hatred around. it is terrorism and theyre being very clever about it, hence i really don't think the march should be allowed to go ahead. if it was a political march, it would be held outside the houses of parliament etc. this is just to incite a reaction.

But right now, what i'm getting more angry about is the sheer number of idiots in this country, shown by these facebook groups. there are some worthwhile comments, but it seems 90% of the comments just say 'kill all muslims', 'muslims smell' and things like 'there's no black in the union jack'.

sorry but im finding the things being said by a hell of a lot of british citizens equally as disturbing and worrying as whats coming out of these extremist groups. England is most definitely in trouble!