53 replies to this topic

[Bungle]

a new shell has no identity so you can put one on it

a second had shell already has a identity so you can't legally remove it and fit a different one

just my piont, well said bungle

So if you replace the front panel and scuttle you are looking at a stretch inside?

how do you replace the front panel and scuttle on a shell you don't have ?

[Jacko-lah]

Not sure if this in right area
Am using iPhone. Question

I bought a project mini on Wednesday and the person i got it off gave me
2 log books. One for the cooper and one for the city. I received everything to do with the city but for the cooper I got everything apart from
The shell.
I'm putting the cooper 1275 engine into the city shell aswell as the interior so basically I'll have a cooper.
What do I do about the two log books. I thought dvla would keep it as a modified city as that's the chassis number and it would b modified to a cooper. Is this right and do I have to register both log books into my name as I don't have the shell for the cooper?

Thanks

I won't bother to read the other posts, because I'm right and whatever oppinions they express are wrong.

1) DVLA/VOSA will NEVER allow one shell to be fitted with a different chassis plate and registered as a different car, but nothing to stop you changing the engine number of the City and informing them and your insurance company.
2) If the person who took the parts off the cooper shell scrapped it, then he was legally obliged to tell the DVLA that he's scrapped it, although these days it's not so simple and you have to be registered and licenced - a few years ago you could just fill in the V5 and send it back. So the seller has actually committed a criminal offence selling you a V5 for a non existent car.
3) The worst thing of all this is that you could have gone off with the V5 and stolen an identical or similar car and ringed it. No one's suggesting this is a good idea are they !!!! It's bad and the reason why TMF won't allow sales of tags and V5's . And rightly so.

What would I do now ? Phone the seller, tell him he can keep the V5 in his name thanks, but you'll have an itemized receipt for all the parts you bought off him. If he won't do it tell him you'll contact the DVLA.

Mind you the DVLA have always been a bit daft. when I bought my first mini in 1988, I ended up with 2 V5's (one in my name, with me as the previous owner)

[Jacko-lah]

There's nothing wrong with selling a shell, nor using one, it's how you use it which determines legality...

And don't compare a Criminal offence with a driving offence, they are completely different.

I'm with you !!!

Much of the law and regulations that the DVLA and VOSA have evolved, has been to try and stop the general public being victims of fraud and being dupped into buying cars which were not what they seemed.

The 'Modifications totting up proceedure' seems to have been designed to stop completely 'different' cars being built which are only loosely based on an original one.
(Like the Cavalier Turbo 4x4 Astra mk1 that I keep seeing in Vauxhall Mags and shows. It's actually a Shortened Cavalier Floorpan, and engine gearbox transmission and suspension comes from that, and a mk1 astra gte top half - It's more cavalier than astra in my humble opinion- I keep thinking someone must out of jealousy send a copy of a magazine write up to the DVLA)


However the recent move to stop all and sundry being able to scrap their own car, appear to have been to stop the growth of one man breakers selling legitimate parts on the internet, without declaring the profit for Income tax and perhaps also committing benefit fraud.

This however has also had a knock on effect where people scrap a shell and can't get rid of the identity anymore in a legal way. So they flog the V5 to either our original poster, who didn't do research first, or they flog the V5 to a criminal, who makes a quck profit.

[minimartin1]

V5 have not been sent off yet for This reason lol.

What I'm taking in from this is to keep the coopper log book in a drawer don't send it off and write out a receipt for the engine and interie etc

[charie t]

how do you replace the front panel and scuttle on a shell you don't have ?

I was speaking generally not specifically

[AVV IT]

Without going too far off topic..... with the identifying panel being the scuttle and the scuttle being one of the more frequently replaced panels on a mini, is the shells identity not lost when the scuttle is replaced? or are you supposed to somehow transfer the details across onto the new scuttle?

[charie t]

Without going too far off topic..... with the identifying panel being the scuttle and the scuttle being one of the more frequently replaced panels on a mini, is the shells identity not lost when the scuttle is replaced? or are you supposed to somehow transfer the details across onto the new scuttle?

Thats what i was saying

[MiniLuke]

It is all a matter of fact..... no matter how much anyone tries to convince themself what they have done with vehicle's identity/bodyshell is not illegal.

Plenty of mk3's around that obviously are not in their original body.......

[Bungle]

that all depends when the MK3 shells were replaced

the rules in the 70's were different

[feybrand]

arent you all getting on youre high horse a bit here
if the cooper was never scrapped then replacing the missing shell with a genuine heritage one is perfectly legal and above board
its not illegal to reshell a car
its only illegal if you use a second hand shell that already had an identity
a brand new shell with no previos identity is legal
granted you could do with a few other origanal bits such as the engine etc to add a patina to it but you dont have to
standard subbys and other parts will pass an iva wether they are original or not
ive never heard of a reshelled car needing an iva anyway i may be mistaken though someone will no doubt say so if i am

[Bungle]

http://www.the-ace.o...rification.html

score less than 8 points and loose your id and re-register it and BIVA test

[Carlos W]

But how do you prove where the sub frames etc came from, they have no unique serial numbers etc!

[bmcecosse]

This goes on and on..... the 'Cooper' has not been scrapped - there are more than '8 points' of bits still around - all it needs is a NEW shell - so no offence commited there, surely. Just because the rusty bit has gone - doesn't mean the 'car' is scrapped. Buy a heritage shell and rebuild it! Done properly with good underbody protection it will last 'for ever' and will be worth much more than the sum of the parts. Of course - this works even better with a pre 73 car with free road tax...........and no tedious emissions testing at MOT time either! And of course - 2 seconds after it has been taxed - there is nothing to stop the engine/brakes/suspension being upgraded with different parts.........

Edited by bmcecosse, 02 January 2011 - 06:16 PM.

[Jacko-lah]

Just because the rusty bit has gone - doesn't mean the 'car' is scrapped.

It's a fine line.


And that fine line is why Lawyers make a better hourly rate than mechanics.

[bmcecosse]

Well- most folk who do a new sheel build start by stripping the old shell bare - get rid of it - and then get the new shell in and do the rebuild. Unless lucky enough to have a double garage and room to do a side-by-side swap over. I certainly did mine the first way. So - in this case - there's just a slight time-lag until the new shell appears when funds allow... ?