160 replies to this topic

[1984mini25]

A mile is nothing; I used to walk just over a mile and a half to and from secondary school for 4 years in ALL weathers, only ever used to take about 20 to 25 minuets. It used to work out quicker in fact to walk as apposed to getting a lift in the car mostly due to the traffic.

Very interesting..... the thing is I was referring to walking a mile with a <you>FIVE</you> year old... now correct me if I'm wrong but "from secondary school for 4 years" would be between the ages of 11 - 15 which is not quite the same thing is it??

True, but you wouldn’t believe the amount of parents/kids that now seam to think even walking to the end of the drive is too far to walk for school or anywere infact. Heck even the kids a few doors down used to jump in the car to be dropped off at the primary school at the end/top of the road and turn back home again.

[AVV IT]

[
this has nothing to do with the current topic but my mom managed single handedly literally every single thing above, when me, my brother and sister were young.
my mom would be the first person to tell you shes nothing special she just gets on with it because she had too. if we had to get up earlier then so be it.
she still manages now without a car and guess what even though me and my brother both drive shes the last to ask for a lift.

+1

none of the above is a hard task, it just takes longer, also a bit of exercise will do children some good!

i used to walk 3 miles to and from school (with my mother and little sister, so in fact my mother was making 2 trips thats walking 12miles a day ) every day until i was in secondary school when a bus was provided.

its only really the last 20-30 years that nearly every house has had a car, before then people walked

any way rant over back to the topic...

Again, people who have never actually done it as parents, but seem to think that their mum made it look easy so it must be! Well my mum made it look easy too, but in actual fact it isn't. Maybe when you have had a go yourself as parents you will think differently!!

Edited by AVV IT, 10 January 2011 - 11:36 PM.

[l_jonez]

The demand for fuel would be allot lower if people stopped driving their kids 1 mile to school every day.

Sorry but I just can't stand the "I blame the school run" mentality.

Have you ever tried getting young children up, fed, washed, dressed, out of the house & into school in time for 0900 hrs every morning? If you haven't, then let me assure you that it requires organisation on an epic scale & that's when using a car to get there! The prospect of having to go through an even greater rigmarole & leave home even earlier in order to walk there, is even less favorable!

A mile is a very long way to walk when you have rather small legs due to only being five years old, especially in the middle of winter & when its raining or snowing! Then there are the younger siblings to consider, because as a parent you have to take them with you on the school run (strangely you are not allowed to leave them at home unsupervised, whilst you take your older kids to school!). They certainly can't walk a mile there (& back again afterwards) twice a day, so they will have to go in a buggy, which you will have to get out each day unfold, (put the rain cover on if its raining) and fold away again after use. Now because they wont be moving around to keep warm whilst sat in the buggy, you will have to wrap them in many extra layers in order to prevent hypothermia! (during changeable weather in late autumn & early spring they may well then over heat too & then you have the worry of a febrile convulsion to contend with as well!) Then you have to take your life in your hands (& theirs), crossing roads in the half light with small children in tow, whilst idiots on their way to work are paying zero attention to the road, whilst doing their make up in the mirror or arranging the days meetings on their mobile phones whilst driving (being a pedestrian in rush hour is dangerous enough, let alone when you have a small children & a buggy with you).

In short I have had to do the school run on foot on a number of occasions, it's highly impractical & it really isn't much fun! I would far rather cycle to work, or take the bus to the supermarket, than not take the car on the school run! I therefore make no apology for using the car to take my kids to & from school!

Unlike commuting, the school run is actually a far more efficient use of fuel than the most, simply because it involves more than one person being transported in a car! How many people could far more easily stop driving the short distances to & from work each day & walk or cycle instead? Now I can only apologise if you are actually the parent of young school age children, but it seems to me that it is generally only those that don't actually do the school run, that seem to find the need to criticise it!

this has nothing to do with the current topic but my mom managed single handedly literally every single thing above, when me, my brother and sister were young.
my mom would be the first person to tell you shes nothing special she just gets on with it because she had too. if we had to get up earlier then so be it.
she still manages now without a car and guess what even though me and my brother both drive shes the last to ask for a lift.

+1

none of the above is a hard task, it just takes longer, also a bit of exercise will do children some good!

i used to walk 3 miles to and from school (with my mother and little sister, so in fact my mother was making 2 trips thats walking 12miles a day ) every day until i was in secondary school when a bus was provided.

its only really the last 20-30 years that nearly every house has had a car, before then people walked

any way rant over back to the topic...

Again people who have never actually done it as parents, but seem to think that their mum made it look easy so it must be! Well my mum made it look easy too, but in actual fact it isn't. Maybe when you have had a go yourself you will think differently!!

thats the problem with the internet, you dont know if i've got children my point was purely that in many cases the car isnt needed to take children to school.

[sonikk4]

Companies don't pay VAT on things they use in providing goods or services to their customers. Well they do but they claim it back. So public transport companies already are excused the VAT on their fuel, and the VAT on the fuel duty they pay but in terms of taxation levels VAT is nothing compared to fuel duty. Fuel duty is a separate tax and is massive at something like 60p per litre, paid on fuel that costs about 48p per litre. It's interesting to note that we pay VAT on road fuels, as well as fuel duty and VAT on the fuel duty, but there is no VAT or duty on aviation jet fuel. Which is more of a luxury?

Ahh okay I see. I can see why the government has put such a high price on fuel generally ( cars have huge negative externalities ). However what is worrying at the moment is that such increase in costs could cripple small business yet larger business' will virtually be untouched.

Also as you said that there is no VAT on aviation jet fuel seems ridiculious. There may not be congestion up there in the skies but flying burns much more of the scarce resourse and as you said more of a luxury!

Ok add VAT to Aviation fuel and then you try and afford a holiday. Its bad enough with the increase in fuel for vehicles but when you try shoving 109 tons into a jumbo jet then break that down into gallons roughly 57,000 gallons and start adding 4 to 5 pence a litre it shoots up then we start talking about an increase of millions of pounds over a fleet.

Ok holidays are a luxury but cargo is not, every international flight carries freight of one form or another, this helps to supplement the airlines income so its not all supplied by Joe Bloggs flying to Orlando etc.

So we as a nation will stop taking holidays abroad forcing more companies to go bust more people jobless more of a burden on the nation and so on and so on.

I take it that you and other people will no longer fly abroad because the airlines do not pay VAT on the fuel.

Just as a footnote i now spend nearly £80 a week on fuel because i have to drive to get to my job. I work shifts so there are no buses or trains at my start and finish times.

It all sucks but unless we as a nation do something constructive rather than pick on areas that do not pay VAT on fuel or whatever then we will forever get screwed. It's a case of put up or shut up.

[AVV IT]

thats the problem with the internet, you dont know if i've got children my point was purely that in many cases the car isnt needed to take children to school.

No, but then when your only retort is based on your mums experience as opposed to your own, then it would be a fair assumption that you don't have that experience yourself. If you did have that experience yourself, then you would have used it in response, as it would have made a far more valid argument!!.... (i.e. if you were actually a parent who had done the school run, you would say something like "I seem to manage with my kids every day, in fact I think it's easy!!" you wouldn't rely on your mums experience of taking you to school instead) ... Now you don't really need to be Sherlock Homes to work that one out, now do you? In fact it's nothing at all to do with the anonymity of internet, it's called "reading between the lines"!!

....and if that merely was your point then why exactly did you directly say in response to my specific experience "none of the above is hard, it just takes longer". Yes in many cases the car isnt needed to take children to school (I should know, I probably see it more than most, as I do sit outside the school gates twice a day after all!!) but I was making the point about doing the school run on foot with a 5 year old and a buggy....and you specifically described that as "not hard" didn't you??.... sorry I have to check as I am "with stupid" after all

Edited by AVV IT, 11 January 2011 - 12:07 AM.

[1984mini25]

thats the problem with the internet, you dont know if i've got children

Well none that I know of...

[Ethel]

What I fail to understand is the difference in price between petrol & diesel, 12 months ago diesel was around 10p per litre more expensive than unleaded. Over the summer the price difference dropped to the point where both fuels were around the same price & now we are back to a difference of almost 10 pence per litre again!! As both products are refined from the same crude oil why the fluctuating price difference? Surely diesel is more expensive to produce than unleaded, or it isn't??

I'll risk being a wally if someone has already answered this. Diesel is heavy oil by another name, used for boilers, generators etc - there's a bigger demand in winter.

I welcome higher fuel prices, if we're serious about cutting emissions then we need to drive less. Higher prices means people will look for better ways to do stuff. We could return the tax revenue to the economy to help fund those changes.

[AVV IT]

I do find it amusing if slightly ironic, that so many people are taking the green/eco/fuel conservation stance on this, here on a website that is dedicated to the ownership of an old car with an inefficient engine & that is generally driven for fun!

[Burnard]

Ironic yes, but we use the roads at quiet times.


Can i just point out that the only people saying driving is the only way to do the school run are the people who do it, and the people who walk, say there is no need to drive.

What did people do before cars? they walked It did them no harm, we are here now.

Part of haveing kids is accepting that it is going to ******* up your own life, and you should be prepared for that, it may mean getting up earlier to get them all ready, folding a buggy is not hard, nor it fitting the rain guard, nor is strapping the kid in. I honestly do not see why you think it would be so hard to walk.

I pass loads of people walking down the road everyday to the primary school with kids who dont even go to school, but are still walking. Its well over a mile from where they live. This is parents with 2, 3 and even more kids, + some that arent theirs.

Dont say its a stupid propostion because it is not.

I used that as a specific example because its one i know for a fact that i am right about. Nobody really needs to drive to school, especially primary school as there are so many.


Chris

[Juju]

I welcome higher fuel prices, if we're serious about cutting emissions then we need to drive less. Higher prices means people will look for better ways to do stuff. We could return the tax revenue to the economy to help fund those changes.

I do find it amusing if slightly ironic, that so many people are taking the green/eco/fuel conservation stance on this, here on a website that is dedicated to the ownership of an old car with an inefficient engine & that is generally driven for fun!

Totally agree with both of you chaps, but I can't see how Ethel's utopian ideas will work at the moment when public transport is expensive (with prices rising) inefficiently run & unreliable in many areas. Add to this an expanding population wanting to get from A to B, an increasing level of unemployment, and a higher price of living for most people.

I expect to see greater theft of fuel than a greater use of alternative forms of transport (public transport/walking/cycling etc.)

Provide a decent, cheaper alternative & people will start leaving their brrm-brrms at home.

[TfcIan]

The demand for fuel would be allot lower if people stopped driving their kids 1 mile to school every day.

Sorry but I just can't stand the "I blame the school run" mentality.

Have you ever tried getting young children up, fed, washed, dressed, out of the house & into school in time for 0900 hrs every morning? If you haven't, then let me assure you that it requires organisation on an epic scale & that's when using a car to get there! The prospect of having to go through an even greater rigmarole & leave home even earlier in order to walk there, is even less favorable!

A mile is a very long way to walk when you have rather small legs due to only being five years old, especially in the middle of winter & when its raining or snowing! Then there are the younger siblings to consider, because as a parent you have to take them with you on the school run (strangely you are not allowed to leave them at home unsupervised, whilst you take your older kids to school!). They certainly can't walk a mile there (& back again afterwards) twice a day, so they will have to go in a buggy, which you will have to get out each day unfold, (put the rain cover on if its raining) and fold away again after use. Now because they wont be moving around to keep warm whilst sat in the buggy, you will have to wrap them in many extra layers in order to prevent hypothermia! (during changeable weather in late autumn & early spring they may well then over heat too & then you have the worry of a febrile convulsion to contend with as well!) Then you have to take your life in your hands (& theirs), crossing roads in the half light with small children in tow, whilst idiots on their way to work are paying zero attention to the road, whilst doing their make up in the mirror or arranging the days meetings on their mobile phones whilst driving (being a pedestrian in rush hour is dangerous enough, let alone when you have a small children & a buggy with you).

In short I have had to do the school run on foot on a number of occasions, it's highly impractical & it really isn't much fun! I would far rather cycle to work, or take the bus to the supermarket, than not take the car on the school run! I therefore make no apology for using the car to take my kids to & from school!

Unlike commuting, the school run is actually a far more efficient use of fuel than the most, simply because it involves more than one person being transported in a car! How many people could far more easily stop driving the short distances to & from work each day & walk or cycle instead? Now I can only apologise if you are actually the parent of young school age children, but it seems to me that it is generally only those that don't actually do the school run, that seem to find the need to criticise it!

When I was in primary school, there was a bloke who would always drive his kids to school. About 50 yards opposite his house was a hill where you could see the school from. He'd have been able to watch his children walk down it from the top and then they'd be so close to the school that it wouldn't matter too much that some trees blocked the view of the path up to the school because it would be about 20 seconds walk for the children, surrounded by parents walking their kids to school, which would give the children protection until they reached the school. This bloke didn't even drop his kids off and then set off to work either because my mom very often saw him getting back home after she'd walked back up the hill. On top of that, it would have been quicker for him to walk down to the school with his children and back again than going the long way round in a car.

I can understand your problem but there are some people who are just plain lazy.

Wouldn't it be a real eye opener if all round the country at the same time classic mini owners pulled into their closest big petrol station and just sat infront of all the pumps so no-one else could use them. I mean that would be a nightmare for them & put a dent in the oil companies profits for sure.
Who's up for it? wink.gif

Two mini's side by side for the long-reach hoses?

[Ethel]

I don't see any conflict in liking cars, but not liking long commutes on congested roads.


Every journey starts with a single step, Juju.

Though there are a couple of hurdles, peeps have no direct control over public transport provision, a car is always available to meet the demand. People like their little piece of private space on wheels too much to give it up without some pain being inflicted on their wallets.

Maybe the Mini has been a beacon of future trends once again - perhaps we need drive on buses.

[Juju]

I don't see any conflict in liking cars, but not liking long commutes on congested roads.


Every journey starts with a single step, Juju.

And every thread must have its platitude, Ethel!

Sorry.

The step needs to be both in the right direction & at the right time. Or we go backwards. Or sideways. Or descend into chaos.

To encourage people to leave their internal combustion engines at home requires carrots as well as sticks. Especially in the current climate.

Maybe the Mini has been a beacon of future trends once again - perhaps we need drive on buses.

Can't fit Matilda on the number 465. I tried. Grappling hook?

[Ethel]

[Juju]

He or she is very cute, despite his or her venom.