Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Main Ends

engine

  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#1 IainNeon91

IainNeon91

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,287 posts
  • Location: Norwich
  • Local Club: Norfolk Mini Owners Club

Posted 17 March 2014 - 05:19 PM

Hello everyone,

 

I test fitted my new crank today (12A1451 Later specification casting 998cc) in my 12A497 block. 

 

I tightened the straps down, only finger tight, and i couldn't even turn the crank... The haynes says it's either badly worn main ends or the wrong type...

 

The crank is out of an A+ 998 and my block is believed to be a 1098 block, year unknown. 

 

There are two different sets of main ends for small bore engines (with the locating indent on the side, relevant to my block) from DSN classics.... 

9060b29bb5ae0fbbf1156e39f348dc9b.png              5709dd6ad87e261b020c5db12e2dc5df.png

 

Which ones are the correct ones to use??

 

Many thanks,

Iain.


Edited by IainNeon91, 17 March 2014 - 05:20 PM.


#2 BritishRacingGreen

BritishRacingGreen

    Speeding Along Now

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 433 posts
  • Location: Hertfordshire

Posted 17 March 2014 - 05:48 PM

Check you haven't ordered or been accidentally sent the wrong size. Bearings for ground cranks will be bigger than the standard ones, and lock up on a standard crank.

 

other than that, is it an A+ block? I don't know if they're any different though.



#3 IainNeon91

IainNeon91

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,287 posts
  • Location: Norwich
  • Local Club: Norfolk Mini Owners Club

Posted 17 March 2014 - 06:09 PM

I haven't bought any main ends yet, I just test fitted the crank in the bearings that were already in the block.

 

It's not an A+ block no, the only difference regarding the main end bearings I can think of is that in an A+ block the locating indent for the bearing is in the centre, not on the side, like mine is.

 

I've just been told that the 'early' bearings on the left are wider than the set on the right, which are the ones I need to fit onto the crank.



#4 ACDodd

ACDodd

    Up Into Fourth

  • Mini Docs
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,657 posts

Posted 17 March 2014 - 06:15 PM

Time for measuring the crank. Impossible to determine clearance issues without measuring.

AC



#5 grumpy dad

grumpy dad

    Speeding Along Now

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 305 posts
  • Location: eastsussex

Posted 17 March 2014 - 07:21 PM

Hi 

AC is right 

did you get the old shells with the crank 

that would tell you a lot 



#6 IainNeon91

IainNeon91

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,287 posts
  • Location: Norwich
  • Local Club: Norfolk Mini Owners Club

Posted 17 March 2014 - 08:55 PM

Time for measuring the crank. Impossible to determine clearance issues without measuring.

AC

Do you mean using a plastigauge??



#7 Cooperman

Cooperman

    Uncle Cooperman, Voted Mr TMF 2011

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,046 posts
  • Location: Cambs.
  • Local Club: MCR, HAMOC, Chelmsford M.C.

Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:11 PM

Measure the crank with a micrometer. Measure the original crank and are the dimensions the same?

If they are then fit the caps & bearing shells without fitting the crank. Torque up to nominal less 10% and measure with an internal micrometer the fitted inside diameter of the caps with shells fitted.

Compare to the running clearance tolerances.

Was the original crank re-ground as that would cause exactly this effect?



#8 ACDodd

ACDodd

    Up Into Fourth

  • Mini Docs
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,657 posts

Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:33 PM

Thanks for the explanation Cooperman.

Ac

#9 IainNeon91

IainNeon91

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,287 posts
  • Location: Norwich
  • Local Club: Norfolk Mini Owners Club

Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:35 PM

I will measure the internal diameters of each the main ends and big ends compared to their relative journal tomorrow.

 

Thanks,

 

Iain



#10 Cooperman

Cooperman

    Uncle Cooperman, Voted Mr TMF 2011

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,046 posts
  • Location: Cambs.
  • Local Club: MCR, HAMOC, Chelmsford M.C.

Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:46 PM

Just to be sure, look at the numbers on the back of the original bearing shells. Is there an undersize marked on them?

One might suspect that the original crank had been re-ground and you are trying to use bearings for an undersize crank with one which has standard journals.

You can only build an engine by measuring everything before starting to do a trial build. It is not unknown for a crank to come up a bit tight, but it should not lock-up solidly on trial build unless there is a serious mis-match of dimensions.



#11 IainNeon91

IainNeon91

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,287 posts
  • Location: Norwich
  • Local Club: Norfolk Mini Owners Club

Posted 17 March 2014 - 10:10 PM

It's very likely that your assumption is correct, that my original crank has be re ground. I won't know until I measure the journals tomorrow. 



#12 Cooperman

Cooperman

    Uncle Cooperman, Voted Mr TMF 2011

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,046 posts
  • Location: Cambs.
  • Local Club: MCR, HAMOC, Chelmsford M.C.

Posted 17 March 2014 - 10:20 PM

Iain, with respect you must NEVER, EVER build an engine without first measuring everything. This includes not only the journal sizes, but the crankshaft end float before stripping and again at trial build to ensure the end float is 0.0015" to 0.005". Use a DTI with a magnetic base for this.

For measuring crank journals use a micrometer and for bearing bores with shells fitted use an internal micrometer. Do not use a digital vernier calliper as this can result in inaccuracies.

To build an engine requires engineering skills, not just a bit of mechanical fitting. That is why engine builders who do a proper job are not inexpensive as they do the job properly.


Edited by Cooperman, 17 March 2014 - 10:24 PM.


#13 IainNeon91

IainNeon91

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,287 posts
  • Location: Norwich
  • Local Club: Norfolk Mini Owners Club

Posted 17 March 2014 - 10:27 PM

I am totally aware of all these factors, I didn't build up the whole engine then realised the crank wouldn't turn.. haha

 

I have been reading all the steps you have described, but from not putting them into practice, I didn't know what I am/was looking for... 

 

I suppose it's all part of the learning process!



#14 Cooperman

Cooperman

    Uncle Cooperman, Voted Mr TMF 2011

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,046 posts
  • Location: Cambs.
  • Local Club: MCR, HAMOC, Chelmsford M.C.

Posted 17 March 2014 - 10:43 PM

You'll soon get there, so don't worry. We are all here to help.



#15 tiger99

tiger99

    Crazy About Mini's

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,584 posts
  • Location: Hemel Hempstead

Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:21 AM

Actually, you have done rather well, by finding the problem BEFORE tightening any nuts. Look back through the forum for various sad tales and you will see what I mean. Obviously developing an engineering instinct, by properly feeling that every bit works, as you go. A very experienced professional might use a very low reading torque gauge (not really a wrench, just a thing with a dial on it) on the crankshaft, noting the torque as each bearing is added and done up. But what you did is quite sufficient for most of us, and obviously found the problem in a timely manner.

 

The cowboy does not do any of that, but torques up everything, puts engine on box, and back in car, then asks a question about why the starter is turning it over slowly, if at all, starter motor or cables are smoking, battery boiling, etc..... The cowboy also puts bolts in the wrong holes, so they are bottoming and not clamping, mixes up the innards of his pot joints, swaps his tappets around at random, and does lots of other things that he will regret sooner or later, probably sooner. Some people grow out of being cowboys and become respectable engineers, sadly others prefer to stay as they are.

 

The cowgirl, on the other hand, tops up the oil through the dipstick hole. Not politically correct, I think, but I have actually seen it, and on a Mini.

 

Stick around here for long enough, and continue learning as you go, and you will be as much an engineer as any of us. I have every confidence that you will get a set of bearings to match your crankshaft soon. If you are stuck, and don't want to fork out for a micrometer etc right now, take the crank into your local engine reconditioners, and they will sort you out a set of shells, as well as telling you if it needs a regrind. A quick measure should not add much to the cost of the shells. Me, I would buy a micrometer, but only because I have some spare cash right now. It was not always so, and may not be so in the future, and I have had to do some dreadful money-saving bodges in my impoverished past.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: engine

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users