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Ballast Wiring/electronic Dizzy?

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#1 olly33

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 09:31 PM

Hi,I been reading Kerknowcooper write up regards ballast ignition upgrade, and after looking at my wiring it seems I have the ballast wiring, but with electonic ignition(65D) dizzy with 3 wires from module,2 of which go on the coil.??
I did not realise the resister is actually the pink/white wire, I was looking for some actual part!
Question is, I had to extend my pink/white wire with same thickness wire, as it was slightly to short to my coil, and I am wondering if I may have messed this ballast resister wire up, by adding to it ?

Also as I have pink/white wire and yellow/white I think it was still going to the coil, im unsure what system I am running with having the electronic ignition fitted(65D fitted to eliminate the points, not done by me).
How can I check what coil I have, and if it is ballast wired is it worth upgrading it? I wonder if thats why rev counter is flicking and not responding quick enough.

sorry for all the questions, not the best with wiring. Olly

#2 dklawson

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 11:26 PM

Dave will be along soon to answer your questions.  However, I will get the conversation started.

 

You are talking about a factory electronic ignition.  Those do not use ballast coils, they use a special low-resistance coil specific to the Lucas electronic distributor.  Sorry, I don't know the specs or part number but you can search for it on this forum.  You want to use the correct coil for the factory ignition... not just any ballast coil.

 

The wire colors you describe are indeed for a ballast ignition system using points.  The electronic ignition systems (factory and aftermarket) do NOT use the ballast ignition wiring to power the electronic switching module.  I am sure one of Kernow's articles talks about running a new white wire from the fuse box to coil (+) to do away with the pinkish ballast resistor wire.  That is what you will need here.  The white/yellow wire is a bypass wire used when the points ignition system is fitted to allow a hotter spark while cranking on the starter.  The wire can be left in place or removed.  It is not necessary with electronic ignitions.

 

To recap, you need the right coil for the factory ignition you have.

You need to supply that coil with a full 12V and not use the pinkish wire at all.

You can leave the white/yellow wire in place or disconnect it and tape it off.



#3 cal844

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 09:42 AM

I have run a new wire from the white wires(top left of fuse box, viewed facing the box from front of car) i left the pink/ white and yellow/ white disconnected at the coil end,

For the new (non ballast) coil you need a part no. GCL143 (unipart) coil... Use the new 12v feed as the live

#4 olly33

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:08 PM

Hi,so is the 65D dizzy with the module classed as a factory setup? I know the previous owner swapped out the points system for this electronic type due to the dreaded water issues.
So I need to replace the current coil with the one mentioned in this post and re-wire the white wire in? What if any,can the current coil damage anything with my current setup? Cheers

#5 dklawson

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 04:31 PM

I have no first hand experience with the 65D distributor and its matching coil.  However, there have been multiple threads on this board about the importance of using the right coil with the factory electronic ignition to prevent damage to the ignition module.  So... yes, buy the right coil and re-wire it as Cal844 mentioned. And yes, the 65D electronic distributor would be considered a factory electronic ignition even if it was not originally on your particular car/engine. 

 

Regarding the water issue.... That has to do with the high-tension circuit not the low tension.  Switching to an electronic distributor will only help in the rain if the dizzy cap, plug wires, and plug wire boots are a better design and seal better.  Again, no first-hand experience with the 65D distributor so I cannot say if it seals better or not.  Splash guards behind the grille to keep water off the distributor are effective and easily made.



#6 olly33

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 08:05 PM

Thanks for the info so far guys.
I took a quick look again today, and even tho the pink/white wire is still on the coil, it has been removed from the starter and wired upto the fuse box, joining up to the white wire there, so I guess the wiring is correct.?
Still using the existing ballast wire, wired straight to the fusebox tho.

Need to try and identify the coil, to be sure now.

Any idea when my rev counter does not respond properly when revving the car, its constanly bouncing? Cheers

#7 dklawson

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 12:10 AM

I took a quick look again today, and even tho the pink/white wire is still on the coil, it has been removed from the starter and wired upto the fuse box, joining up to the white wire there, so I guess the wiring is correct.?

Any idea when my rev counter does not respond properly when revving the car, its constanly bouncing? Cheers

 

The pink wire may be spliced to a white wire that goes back to the ignition switch but It should never have been connected to the starter solenoid.  If the pinkish wire is still in the circuit at all, that is wrong as it IS a resistor.  For the electronic ignition you need a white wire directly from a 12V source (fuse box or ignition switch) going to coil (+).

 

You did not mention the year of your car or what type of tachometer you have.  Look carefully at the face of your tach for identifying text.  Specifically look for RVI or RVC and let us know if either is on the face of your tach.



#8 olly33

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:07 PM

Hi, perhaps I got mixed up with kernowcooper write up regards the pink/white wire going to starter.As you say the pink/white wire is still connected into the white wire, so will have to change this.
What is special about this wire being a resister?
My car is 1991 carb,3 standard clocks, I will check for Rvc, Rvi. Thanks, appreciate the help.Olly

#9 KernowCooper

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 05:48 PM

The correct coil for the factory 65D4M is GCL211 which is the same equivalent as GCL143, other coils will eventually kill the module.



#10 olly33

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:31 PM

dklawson, my clocks have new covers over the original black,so cannot see any markings on the front of the clocks?

Will check the coil tomorrow, to see what voltage im getting with ignition on, to determine if its the correct one.
Also can anyone tell me what gauge/thickness the new white wire should be, to rewire it from fusebox to coil, cheers.

#11 dklawson

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 12:36 AM

Voltage checks at the coil are not as simple as most people think. 

 

The job of the ballast resistor is to drop the voltage at the coil.  That voltage drop cannot happen unless current is flowing through the ignition system.  For the current to be flowing the electronic module must be conducting (equivalent to the points being closed).  If you want to test the coil voltage on your car, make a jumper wire and connect it between earth the coil (-) terminal.  That will mimic the points being closed.  Now turn the ignition switch to the run position and measure between coil (+) and earth.  If you find 6V to 9V, there is a ballast resistor in the circuit.  If you leave it in place the engine will not start.  If you find 12V, there is no ballast resistor in series with the coil.  Do not forget to remove the jumper wire.  



#12 olly33

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 05:01 PM

Dklawson, just noticed your post regards checking the coil, after I posted, will recheck it again, as stated.Olly

I checked the voltage at the coil today, with the ignition turned on, but but running and there was just over 12volts on the + terminal, but unless I was doing something wrong, the - terminal was also giving the same votls.!
I had Black wire from multimeter to an earth, red on the + terminal, then tried red on - terminal, same reading??

Edited by olly33, 23 August 2014 - 05:05 PM.


#13 dklawson

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 06:52 PM

Though you will hear of people measuring coil voltage with the engine running... don't bother.  Regardless of ignition type (standard or ballast) the voltage on coil (-) is going to jump from 0V to 12V as the system operates.  Your multimeter is not going to be able to read this right.  If digital... the meter is going to be sampling the voltage several times a second and will display a moving average of what it sees.  If your meter is an old analog type it will have a fluttering needle that sort of represents an average reading.  If your car has a standard ignition system, coil (+) MAY read close to a steady 12V.  If there is a ballast present, the voltage on coil (+) is going to bounce around between 6V and 12V.  That's why making the voltage readings with the engine not running gives better results.

 

Make the measurements with the ignition on, engine off, the jumper wire between coil (-) and earth, and with your meter connected between the same earthing point and coil (+).  6V to 9V on coil (+) means there is a ballast resistor in the system, 12V means there is not.



#14 KernowCooper

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 07:06 PM

Dougs nailed it the above tests for you and will accurately identify which system you have



#15 olly33

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 08:32 PM

Hi, will be testing the coil tuesday, but can anyone tell me what gaude/mm wire I need to wire from fuse box? Cheers





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