947 replies to this topic

[Jammy]

ok I'm looking at over £1000 for a cylinder head, but it'll pee of a few Vtec & K-series chips

I wouldn't bank on this. Vtec put out either 150 or 160 as standard, and it doesn't take much to get them up to the 200 mark. Since they are an all aluminium engine there won't be alot in the weight either between the two engines (although the gearbox is rather heavy). I think at the end of the day its going to come down to how light you can get the rest of the car, and how well you can get the handling set up.

[Dog]

True - Jammy - True!

But still, it'll be a hell of a battle at dragwars
and it'll still be a fast Mini! Might be a good contender for the 1380 class at dragwars too!

[Sprocket]

Not being funny mate but it depends who you know as to whats what in the BMW K head conversion And im not going to get involved again.

On A lighter note, Good on ya dude. Tell you one thing though, Its a pain in the arse assembling sixteen valves, springs with 32 collets, it takes forever

Edited by Mini Sprocket, 06 March 2007 - 07:54 PM.

[Dog]

hehe!

Cheers Sprocket lol... But I might get an already done head, by Morspeed... as I am not too up with head tuning anyways... cams etc... not to bad, porting eeep keep away lol

Reason why I've decided to go 16v, and the K1100.. I'm fed up with how the 5 port head, unless you spend loads, you just don't get decent proformace from it, and rather than going 7-8port 8v, I'll go for something a little different, 16v

Just working out, weather to go twin DCOE40's or DTI Injection, and throttle bodies...

[mini93]

when ur assemping the head with valces i found on college a piller drill can be useful put wood in the port so it hold the valves to the seats and put the valve clamp tool into the chuck of the piller drill n wind the handle down (not turning on) alot easier to hold down that some of the spring compressors and u can fiddle with 2 hands (if u can lock the winding handle or hold with a knee....explination sounds very rough but it works!

[Sprocket]

hehe!

Cheers Sprocket lol... But I might get an already done head, by Morspeed... as I am not too up with head tuning anyways... cams etc... not to bad, porting eeep keep away lol

Reason why I've decided to go 16v, and the K1100.. I'm fed up with how the 5 port head, unless you spend loads, you just don't get decent proformace from it, and rather than going 7-8port 8v, I'll go for something a little different, 16v

Just working out, weather to go twin DCOE40's or DTI Injection, and throttle bodies...

No real need to port the head, it flows enough as it is. As for the fueling, Injection all the way. Forget the individual throttle bodies and make up a plenum and run one single large throttle. Far more practical, youll get a decent MAP reading and have a place to connect the PCV system, brake servo if you wish and so on.

If your speaking to EngineTuner, say hello from Sprocket for me

[Sprocket]

Oh and do the 40's actualy fit?, i recon they will poke through the bonnet, but more imortantly the choke spacing is too wide for the port spacing, thus defeating the point of fitting webbers this big. I was under the impression it was a pair of 32's????

Sure some one will correct me

[Bungle]

can you use the carbs off the BMW bike ?

[Dog]

Well this is what Simon said, as I am after 140-160bhp, he said for cost, I cna run a dizzy, and twin DCOE40's. he has some manifolds that fit, thus, this meaning, carbs out the bonnet

I like the nice simple compact picture he has on his site, but I'm not getting his "kit", its look poorly designed to be honest, so I am getting the kit Specialist Compoants sell, and build from there...

Sporcket - as for plenum running, you would happen to have any examples, so I can see what I need to design & build one, also, for the carb, which do you think will be best?

Bungle - I did think about using the carbs off the bikes, but I want hassle free, so I#d rather have the headache of building it right first time and not worry about having to retune it with the slightest modifiction - also means I can try and have two settings - Eco, and sports modes

[supermotolee]

i saw the specialist components clubby at bingly and that was running the bmw fuel injection and throttle boddies they guy i spoke to said they supply an ecu ready mapped with a basic start up map why bother with different carbs/injection when you can get most of what you need from the origional bike?

[Sprocket]

Sporcket - as for plenum running, you would happen to have any examples, so I can see what I need to design & build one, also, for the carb, which do you think will be best?

If you wait a couple of weeks, you can have a peek at mine

As for carbies as big as 40mm chokes, there must be something seriously wrong with the design of a carb if thats whats needed. The 'MSPD' engine that Simon harps on about with 168bhp on 1380cc uses the standard throttle boddies on injection and 300 degree duration cams and a unique one off exhaust manifold.

The original research on this conversion sees the 32DCOE weber as the better carb as the chokes are spaced almost that of the head ports. Fitting bigger carbs will leave the outer two cylinders with a sharp ange for the charge to enter the port. When spending this sort of money you want to be optimising things rather than hindering. Not saying it wont work but its far from ideal. Why do racers use split webers when they could use one? its to line up the chokes straight with the ports. Optimisation.

Not only that, carbs need set up time on the rollers, and a lot of faffing about with jets and veturi's, as well as getting the ignition timing and dizzy mapped correctly. Yes injection needs mapping and usualy done correctly on the rollers, but it can be tuned as you drive and without faffing around with venturis and jets. You can do it yourself. Thats the biggest advantage, unless you like handing over your hard earnd cash to other people to recalibrate your carbs everytime you change things.

Injection is not that difficult and if you put your mind to it, it may even be possible to use a Rover 1.4 k series ecu, wiring loom and dizzy. not ideal, but its a dam close match and you would have the benefit of it being reliable. Youd be one step closser to fully programable injection and probibly work better than the carbs and clockwork dizzy. This would require an inlet plenum though. I WILL be trying this on an engine some time, no reason why it wont work.

[Dog]

Sprocket - I'll deffo take you up on that offer..

I understand what you mean, and I have thought about using the bike carbs, and DTI injection and mapping systems..
As for 300degree cams, stuff that! I want a drivable motor! Standard cams should be ok?

Also, MS, you wouldn't happen to know, if using the standard carbs, with a plenum, will it fit under a normal Mk1 bonnet?
As I'd like to keep this mini lines looking standard, as I do want this to be a Wolf in sheeps clothing..

[Sprocket]

Sorry Mate im a little confused :'(

The plenum is for the injection, it uses a single throttle body. A plenum and carbs wont work.

The plenum, if you design it righ as well as the standard throttle bodies will fit under a standard bonnet, just barely. Bike carbs will also fit under the standard bonnet. Webers will not.

There is another option that you can consider to help the packaging under a standard round nose. Use an auto subframe and make spacers for the engine mounts so that the engine sits roughly 10 - 15mm lower, Ah La the original KAD head. Make sure the engine position is in the original front to back location as on cars up to 1992, the later cars and all Automatics had the engine sitting 12mm further forward and does not help with bonnet clearance on the cam cover. Dont forget to fabricate new brackets for the engine tie bars, of which you should fit four, two at the botom front and two at the top back.

Depending on your expected output a side mount rad can be kept thus enabling you to run a standard alternator in its original location. Front mount rads can be used but then you are back to tight packaging issues as you will need an electric fan. The MPI rad is pants for high power engines on hot days (remember what Avon was like last year).

Lots to think about, not just the head conversion. Fuel pumps, fuel lines, uprated suspention and brakes, oil coolers and lots of other stuff that is not obvious when looking at the conversion.

[Dog]

Food for thought there MS!
I am prepared to do all that, the fueling is similar to running a turbo, fuel pumps, regs etc..

Is there something thats ideal for the throttle? (I do understand what you mean, I need to build the same as what my Nissan has under the bonnet) Huge Throttle on one end, with the filter, and a air sensor to tell the engine what to do (well part of it)

I have 12 months to build the engine, and the Mini, the Mini is nearly done, so main funds are engine I know you can get the full fueling systems from Specialist Components - so getting ALL I need from there!

I am really interested in what your doing - I'd like to follow (copy ) some of the bits your doing, just to use your engine as a guide

[Bungle]

the only thing with siting the engine lower is that if you want to lower the car the drive shafts are going to be very dent and not straight putting more strain on the cv joints