126 replies to this topic

[stoneface]

I'm cetainly no expert on injection but I had a similar problem with my 1700cc x-flow 132BHP engine.

Turned out to be over fueling with 270cc/min injectors and flooding the engine, and thats with the map Weber provided.

It ended up on a rolling road to get setup properly. By this point the plugs were so damp we had to dry them out with a blow torch.

After adjusting the ecu map to reduce the fueling they worked great even though they are still considered big.

[bpirie1000]

Is it new fuel that is in the tank! I have had issues with fuel,that was over a month old being reluctant to start.. try taking plug out and making sure the plugs are wet. Even spray some brake cleaner into the bore give it alittle help with the ignigtion.

Check the tollerances on the trigger wheel aswell on the crank side. Make sure there is a pulse for the correct firing order.

Have a hunt on internet for edis4 or mega jolt systems and have a read.. shouldmgive you alittle more knowledge... roadside you need knowledge. Best learning that when car is in the garage not on the roadside.....

Good luck..

Edited by bpirie1000, 25 December 2020 - 09:19 AM.

[Shooter63]

I got 200s with mine

 
Interesting. I'll hang on to the ones I've got for now, as I feel that once I've actually got the car running I'll be able to tell if this is an issue or not. Not sure if this would actually prevent me from firing it up though?

They won't cause you a problem as such but I just can't understand why they fit them,have you checked that the trigger wheel is in the right place, ie the missing tooth, normally it's set 90 degrees before tdc, so put the engine at tdc on no1 and have a check, the missing tooth should be 90 degrees away. Another thing have you set the TPS, it won't affect the tick over but if not set it won't allow you to rev the engine, ie it'll cut out.

Shooter

[IronmanG]

I think the inconsistencies on the part of SC is pretty poor. They seem to make a good effort to get it right afterwards bit it would not be better to get it right going out the door?

[Spider]

I've next to no experience at all with these set up, though I have looked at many.

 

If it has the original BMW Cams still fitted, if memory serves, the K1200 engine runs in the opposite direction to the A Series, so the Cam phasing of 2 of the cylinders is not in the normal sequence as would be for the A Series. To compensate for this the firing order is not the same as it normally is but something 1, 2, 3, 4.

 

Also, check that the Cams have been phased together correctly, ie the Exhaust Will Open, then Close, as that's Closing, the corresponding Inlet will Open, close, then a full crank cycle and then repeating over.

[Chris1992]

They won't cause you a problem as such but I just can't understand why they fit them,have you checked that the trigger wheel is in the right place, ie the missing tooth, normally it's set 90 degrees before tdc, so put the engine at tdc on no1 and have a check, the missing tooth should be 90 degrees away. Another thing have you set the TPS, it won't affect the tick over but if not set it won't allow you to rev the engine, ie it'll cut out.

Shooter

 

 

Not had a chance to check the trigger wheel or anything timing related just yet, as Xmas has been keeping me pretty wrapped up (no pun intended... or is it). 

 

I had a quick look. and noticed a marking on the trigger wheel pully that seems to line up with the missing tooth, no idea what this means though until I can check at TDC. 

 

the TPS was set by SC during a remote session a couple weeks back, so hopfully that should be ok.

 

I think the inconsistencies on the part of SC is pretty poor. They seem to make a good effort to get it right afterwards bit it would not be better to get it right going out the door?

 

I have to agree with you there. It has been a real headache, but I won't hold it against them while they remain supportive. 

 

I've next to no experience at all with these set up, though I have looked at many.

 

If it has the original BMW Cams still fitted, if memory serves, the K1200 engine runs in the opposite direction to the A Series, so the Cam phasing of 2 of the cylinders is not in the normal sequence as would be for the A Series. To compensate for this the firing order is not the same as it normally is but something 1, 2, 3, 4.

 

Also, check that the Cams have been phased together correctly, ie the Exhaust Will Open, then Close, as that's Closing, the corresponding Inlet will Open, close, then a full crank cycle and then repeating over.

 

It does indeed have BMW LT cams fitted. Not had chance just yet to have a closer look at the cams, but I'll hopefully be able spare some more time over the next few days as the Xmas madness dies down.

 

---------

 

Today managed to spare an hour, so I went out for a quick poke around, and I do have an update of sorts... not sure if it's progress though! 

 

So literally all I did first was swap the 2 left HT leads on the coil with the 2 right ones. So instead of going 1234 counterclockwise from the top right post, it now goes 1234 clockwise from the bottom left post. (I know this makes no sense at all, I was just having another mess around with them). I have tried so many different configurations that I was certain I'd covered this one, but obviously not.

 

Now when cranking, instead of just turning  over and over endlessly, it jumps straight into actually trying to fire up. It's hard to explain but it pics up the pace and cranks at double time in the recognizable way any car does right before it fires up. like it's desperately trying to and very close, but no matter how long I crank it for, it just won't actually fire. 

 

Here are the peculiar details I've noticed; occasionally I get a puff of smoke out the throttle bodies (usually the third body from the fan, and usually when I stop cranking). 

 

After cranking, the manifold becomes warm to the touch on branch 1, 2, and 3, but not 4 (closest to clutch end), this one stays stone cold. I assume this is because I have no ignition here, I've tried swapping the leads and plugs, but the result is the same.  

 

As for plugs, 1, 2, and 3 are always varying degrees of black when I remove them, some more than others (particularly number 3 which is always filthy). 4 on the other hand is squeaky clean every time I check. Very hard to tell if it's wet or not, I think it is getting damp but it definitely smells of fuel. 

 

If I give it any throttle at all while cranking, it slows down and goes back to simply turning over.

 

I'm also getting a bit of smoke from the bores when I remove the plugs. 

 

Hope at least some of that makes sense! I've tried to be as clear as possible. 

 

Thanks guys, really appreciate the help so far. 

[sonikk4]

As shooter and IronmanG have alluded to, those injectors are too big.

They supply those 440’s with the 7 Port conversion as well. I got SC to supply 220cc injectors for my 7 Port. Now although it may not be in the root of your issue the amount of fuel being forced in may need to be taken into consideration for bore washing.

Northernpower on here gave me the heads up with regards to the injector issue and recommended to get SC to supply smaller injectors from the begininning. He has done a lot of work with regards to his 7 Port conversion so would be worth contacting him to get the low down as this may help you with your issues.

[Spider]

Now when cranking, instead of just turning  over and over endlessly, it jumps straight into actually trying to fire up. It's hard to explain but it pics up the pace and cranks at double time in the recognizable way any car does right before it fires up. like it's desperately trying to and very close, but no matter how long I crank it for, it just won't actually fire.

 

Some positive progress by the sounds of it.

 

It also sounds like the Ignition Timing is quite Retarded.

[Shooter63]

Ok a bit of success, I read earlier that you've opened up the throttle bodies ( tick over screws) try shutting them down again using the old fag paper trick ie put a fag paper between the butterfly and the body and slowly open them with the screw until you can pull the paper out, then try cranking it over again ( don't touch the throttle) if it trys to catch ie start open the screws up a 16th turn and try again, don't over do it. The fact you get nothing if you open the throttle sort of says the tps may not be set as the ECU doesn't know what's happening. I know it's not a help at the moment but SC should be able to remotely take over the ECU as long as internet of some sort is available, my understanding is that the firing order is 1342, as it's a wasted spark set up if you have 1 side of the coil on 1&4 and the other on 2&3 you can't go far wrong. The wiring diagram for the ECU will tell you what side is what but the centre wire is live

Shooter

[sonscar]

This is VERY important.Disconnect the injectors and using a dumb timing light verify the timing.This is VERY important.Do this for all plugs.Steve..

[IronmanG]

Any progress on this?

[Chris1992]

Any progress on this?

 

No updates yet, other than confirming that the coil is in fact wired up backwards. Not sure when I'll next have enough time to spare to make some real progress (balancing work and family), but I'll definitely keep this thread updated when I do.

 

Cheers for the help chaps  

[72hump]

Sorry to hear about all the issues your having with your engine Chris. Some great amount information on this thread to help others if they run into your problem.

[Shooter63]

Any progress on this?

 
No updates yet, other than confirming that the coil is in fact wired up backwards. Not sure when I'll next have enough time to spare to make some real progress (balancing work and family), but I'll definitely keep this thread updated when I do.
 
Cheers for the help chaps

Just change the leads over, all the ECU is telling the coil is to fire a pair of plugs, if possible post up the pin out drawing. Not that it helps but this really is p$$s poor by SC, by the sound of it they would be better off supplying people with a flying loom and a handful of connectors, letting them wire the ECU themselves.

Shooter

[sonscar]

Do not be tempted to semi randomly guess.EFI is not like dissy and carbs,if it synchs up whilst cranking it will do whatever you have told it to do regardless of where it is happening.Disconnect the injectors whilst getting the timing correct as the engine will most likely fill with fuel with all the attendant problems(hydraulic lock,fire oil dilution etc)

I have made many mistakes years ago with DIY EFI systems.As I said.get the correct firing order for the motor,connect the coilpack correctly to the paired cylinders.CHECK THE TIMING with a light on all cylinders.I cannot stress how important this is,checking the orientation of the trigger wheel is not enough.

Connect to the ECU and familiarise yourself with the software re cranking advance,trigger angle and all things ignition.When you have it firing correctly only then think about fuel.Have careful fun,be logical.You will soon achieve GURU status.Steve..