225 replies to this topic

[Cooperman]

For those doing relatively low mileage journeys and who can charge overnight at home, an electric car is excellent.

My Daughter-in-Law has a new electric VW and for her it is fine.

My son has a big VW Transporter with 6 seats which he uses to go to work, to go on holidays and to tow his rally car to and from events. It is a diesel.

Recently he was on his way to my home, a 75 mile each way journey, when he had a problem with the brakes on his VW. The AA came and rescued him and dropped his wife and my two grandkids at a service area whilst they trailered his big VW home. I went out and pick her and the kids up in my car and my son got the electric VW and came to my home for a late lunch/early dinner.

The family stayed overnight in a very well-known hotel in Huntingdon and asked where the charging points were as he needed to charge it in order to get home. The hotel were very sorry, but they have no charging points. Thus on Sunday morning, a search was made for a charging station. 

In the end, he drove down the A1 and found a Shell garage which had 4 electric charging points. Two needed an app which he didn't have and the other two were being used. After waiting for aroun,d 15 minutes, one became free and he was able to re-charge with enough power to get him the 70+ miles home with a bit to spare. His view now is that electric cars are useless for anyone who drives on longer journeys out of the immediate home area, but that even then, the ability to charge at home is vital. Not everyone will ever be able do that - think high-rise apartments, terraced houses, etc.

Bluntly, it ain't gonna work unless very extensive infra-structure is put in place, and then only for some. For even some of the necessary infra-structure, every motorway and A-road service station will need a large network of charging points plus a lot more parking area for those waiting. So far not one 'compulsory purchase order' has been put in place to acquire the additional land needed for the parking/waiting areas, nor has the huge cabling layout needed even been designed to join these charging areas into the National Grid, let alone planned.

One can expect to see the 2030 ban on sales on non-electric cars going back initially 5 years, then 5 more and so on.

[IronmanG]

[quote name="Cooperman" post="3738960" timestamp="1676988137"]

For those doing relatively low mileage journeys and who can charge overnight at home, an electric car is excellent.
My Daughter-in-Law has a new electric VW and for her it is fine.
My son has a big VW Transporter with 6 seats which he uses to go to work, to go on holidays and to tow his rally car to and from events. It is a diesel.
Recently he was on his way to my home, a 75 mile each way journey, when he had a problem with the brakes on his VW. The AA came and rescued him and dropped his wife and my two grandkids at a service area whilst they trailered his big VW home. I went out and pick her and the kids up in my car and my son got the electric VW and came to my home for a late lunch/early dinner.
The family stayed overnight in a very well-known hotel in Huntingdon and asked where the charging points were as he needed to charge it in order to get home. The hotel were very sorry, but they have no charging points. Thus on Sunday morning, a search was made for a charging station.
In the end, he drove down the A1 and found a Shell garage which had 4 electric charging points. Two needed an app which he didn't have and the other two were being used. After waiting for aroun,d 15 minutes, one became free and he was able to re-charge with enough power to get him the 70+ miles home with a bit to spare. His view now is that electric cars are useless for anyone who drives on longer journeys out of the immediate home area, but that even then, the ability to charge at home is vital. Not everyone will ever be able do that - think high-rise apartments, terraced houses, etc.
Bluntly, it ain't gonna work unless very extensive infra-structure is put in place, and then only for some. For even some of the necessary infra-structure, every motorway and A-road service station will need a large network of charging points plus a lot more parking area for those waiting. So far not one 'compulsory purchase order' has been put in place to acquire the additional land needed for the parking/waiting areas, nor has the huge cabling layout needed even been designed to join these charging areas into the National Grid, let alone planned.
One can expect to see the 2030 ban on sales on non-electric cars going back initially 5 years, then 5 more and so on.[/quote

100% agree

[mab01uk]

Britain explores a crackdown on brake and tyre wear emissions.....
"Drivers risk being forced to pay a “tyre tax” as Britain explores a crackdown on brake and tyre wear emissions.
Ministers have hired advisers to explore how to address harmful emissions that experts say are more harmful than diesel fumes.
The Department for Transport has asked consultancy Arup to “develop recommendations on how to better assess and control these emissions which will persist after a transition to zero tailpipe emission vehicles”, according to a Government filing.
Although the Whitehall officials this weekend insisted that Arup’s work was not designed to inform tax policy, it is being seen as one of the strongest signals yet that a tyre tax is coming down the road.
Andy Turbefield, head of quality at Halfords, said: “Putting a tax on road safety is not the right way to plug the fuel duty gap. Worn tyres and faulty brakes are two of the biggest causes of accidents.
“As it is, many motorists are delaying tyre replacement and basic maintenance because of the cost-of-living crisis. Using the tax system to penalise people for keeping their vehicles in a roadworthy condition is not a good policy.”
Tyre and brake wear pollution is expected to be the next battleground for clean air campaigners after drivers switch to electric vehicles.
Particles sent into the air – known as “particulate matter (PM) 2.5” – are more harmful than nox emissions that have been the target of low-emissions zones such as Sadiq Khan’s Ulez in London.
Although tyre technology has developed to reduce dangerous emissions, the Environment Department said last week that non-exhaust road emissions have “remained largely unchanged between 1996 and 2021”
Mr Turbefield added: “If taxing non-exhaust emission is to be considered, then there needs to be more research into emissions from road surface wear. It’s plausible that electric vehicles, which are much heavier than petrol vehicles, cause more damage to road surfaces and are therefore a bigger source of road surface emissions. Any review needs to take account of the big picture.”
A Government spokesman said: “We want to better understand the impacts of non-exhaust emissions, such as tyres, on the environment which is why we’re conducting research on the matter. This research was not commissioned to inform tax policy development.
“As we continue to deliver on our target to meet Net Zero by 2050, we are committed to keeping the switch to electric vehicles affordable to consumers, which is why we are spending billions to help incentivise uptake and fund the rollout of charging infrastructure across the UK.”
In May Professor Alastair Lewis, chairman of the Department for Transport Science Advisory Council, said: “When everybody owns a low emissions vehicle, low emission zones become a toothless control lever to try to manage air pollution."
“A world where we [have] jam-packed roads full of electric cars [also] isn’t a particularly attractive one… Even if they are electric, [they] will generate lots of particles.”
“At some point in the future when most of those cars have disappeared, a different form of air pollution control” is likely to be needed, he added.
“We do have to project forward about how we’re going to manage vehicles in large cities like London in the future when we have a largely electrified fleet of vehicles.”
https://www.telegrap...down-emissions/

 

[jonlad]

I wonder what would happen if the money spent on hiring advisors as above was actually spent on technology development of low polluting tyres and brakes and the infrastructure to support them...

 

nahh that would be too easy...  

[sonscar]

People themselves are probably the most polluting thing on the planet,that is before all the pollution they directly or indirectly cause.Food for thought?Steve..

[mab01uk]

People themselves are probably the most polluting thing on the planet,that is before all the pollution they directly or indirectly cause.Food for thought?Steve..

 

 

Looks like you might have a point.....

 

 

[unburntfuelinthemorning]

They put this story about tyres across as if the government actually cares about our health.  If they did they wouldn't have caused people to miss cancer appointments over the last few years.  They wouldn't have increased mental health problems in children.  They wouldn't have separated families from dying loved ones.  After what they did to us in the name of "stopping the spread" I don't trust them with anything anymore.  Government constantly seeks to justify itself so they can rob us of even more of our money.

[PoolGuy]

They put this story about tyres across as if the government actually cares about our health. 

It's the same type of psychological warfare that they use in road works, the sign that says, 'Repairing worn-out road surface'. Like we should be grateful for the delays because we wore the road out.

[FlyingScot]

Plenty of regurgitated old cobblers in this thread…. Including media inaccuracies 

 

I have an electric car and have covered 22k miles in the last year with it. Is it perfect no, would I change it back to an ICE version no.

Am I using it only for local journeys- clearly not and whilst I have a home charger (which didn’t involve upgrading my supply) I generally don’t use it as the car belongs to the Company as I’m not keen using my own electricity to charge it. So I have plenty experience of using public charging. My wife also has an electric car and guess what we haven’t had an issue with using it either.

 

Perfectly happy to buy petrol for all my classics but the facts are you can use an EV for normal and even long range travel. Are they for everybody ? Probably not as without suitable infrastructure in some parts of the Country it can be more difficult.

Worst places I have found to travel to for charging - Aberdeen ( may not be a coincidence that it’s economy is in part fossil fuelled).

Even travelling to East Sussex was easier!

 

Hydrogen - oft touted as what we should have is a pipe dream. There are now fewer hydrogen fuelling points than there were 18 months ago and you still need electricity to produce it (an extra inefficient step). Plus if you think hydrogen cars would be lighter than EVs you haven’t explored the construction of the tank needed to store the stuff.

Everyone makes their own choices with regard to vehicles but remember the large energy suppliers don't really have your best interests at heart.
Charging an electric car overnight on a cheap tariff or using solar will for many people be perfectly doable. Yes we need better infrastructure and novel solutions for those in flats or terraced houses. The fact that the “national grid” is so poor as not to be able to move electricity to where it’s needed has been a problem for years EVs and heat pumps are just going to exacerbate this issue.

 

FS

[sonscar]

I am not anti electric vehicle.I am pro choice.Just saying,Steve..

[Ethel]

Motor vehicles more or less replaced horses in a decade. That was a far bigger change technologically, but the real challenge is from the social changes that followed. More of us have private transport & use it to travel farther for everything: work, shopping, socialising. A similar social change is likely to be part of the solution. There are already fewer youngsters learning to drive, as a right of passage, and more living their lives without owning a car, if only because they can't afford the insurance on top of rent & personal debt - Is that a choice?

 

 

 

Sorry, but this looks like a load of guff. Everything to the left of have one less child will be contributing to the extra kid total.

 

That's beside it all being literally one sided. Upgrade light bulbs from what, how many? How much laundry, cottons or synthetics, what spin speed? Recycle, before or after "decycling"???

 

 

[unburntfuelinthemorning]

Motor vehicles more or less replaced horses in a decade. That was a far bigger change technologically, but the real challenge is from the social changes that followed. More of us have private transport & use it to travel farther for everything: work, shopping, socialising. A similar social change is likely to be part of the solution. There are already fewer youngsters learning to drive, as a right of passage, and more living their lives without owning a car, if only because they can't afford the insurance on top of rent & personal debt - Is that a choice?

 

 

 

Sorry, but this looks like a load of guff. Everything to the left of have one less child will be contributing to the extra kid total.

 

That's beside it all being literally one sided. Upgrade light bulbs from what, how many? How much laundry, cottons or synthetics, what spin speed? Recycle, before or after "decycling"???

 

 

They forgot the one to the right on the graph which is kill yourself - that'll make the biggest reduction in CO₂ emissions and is where this way of thinking was always going to ultimately end.

[Ethel]

 

Motor vehicles more or less replaced horses in a decade. That was a far bigger change technologically, but the real challenge is from the social changes that followed. More of us have private transport & use it to travel farther for everything: work, shopping, socialising. A similar social change is likely to be part of the solution. There are already fewer youngsters learning to drive, as a right of passage, and more living their lives without owning a car, if only because they can't afford the insurance on top of rent & personal debt - Is that a choice?

 

 

 

Sorry, but this looks like a load of guff. Everything to the left of have one less child will be contributing to the extra kid total.

 

That's beside it all being literally one sided. Upgrade light bulbs from what, how many? How much laundry, cottons or synthetics, what spin speed? Recycle, before or after "decycling"???

 

 

They forgot the one to the right on the graph which is kill yourself - that'll make the biggest reduction in CO₂ emissions and is where this way of thinking was always going to ultimately end.

 

Cremation or sky burial?

[unburntfuelinthemorning]

 

 

Motor vehicles more or less replaced horses in a decade. That was a far bigger change technologically, but the real challenge is from the social changes that followed. More of us have private transport & use it to travel farther for everything: work, shopping, socialising. A similar social change is likely to be part of the solution. There are already fewer youngsters learning to drive, as a right of passage, and more living their lives without owning a car, if only because they can't afford the insurance on top of rent & personal debt - Is that a choice?

 

 

 

Sorry, but this looks like a load of guff. Everything to the left of have one less child will be contributing to the extra kid total.

 

That's beside it all being literally one sided. Upgrade light bulbs from what, how many? How much laundry, cottons or synthetics, what spin speed? Recycle, before or after "decycling"???

 

 

They forgot the one to the right on the graph which is kill yourself - that'll make the biggest reduction in CO₂ emissions and is where this way of thinking was always going to ultimately end.

 

Cremation or sky burial?

 

Sky burial?

[Ethel]

That's when they leave you out for the birds - Zoroastrians apparently