Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

White '93 Sprite Mot Failure

roundnose

  • Please log in to reply
86 replies to this topic

#46 JonnyAlpha

JonnyAlpha

    Up Into Fourth

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,341 posts
  • Location: North Devon
  • Local Club: Exmoor Minis

Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:49 PM

At long last I can finally report my first batch of panels have arrived. But not until yesterday, so none are on the car yet. They're only magnum panels so I might have a bit of fun making them fit. The one I was dreading the most ie the door steps, don't look too bad. The folds look pretty square and true, however there's a bit of a ripple on the curve where it meets the pillar, nothing a bit of filler won't sort tho.

Think I've ordered the wrong outer sills tho. I will take a picture and post it up at some point, but I think I will end up chopping about 2inches off there width.

I also ordered myself a joggler, because after a lot of helpful responses to my "to joggle or not to joggle" post, I've decided to put a step in the edge of the floor panel for the joint with the new inner sill. The joggler arrived today so might have a play on some scraps of metal later.

Waiting for my panels has really held up progress, but on Wednesday I did manage to get my first bit of welding and fabrication done on the car. My floor pans were in pretty good shape apart from around the slinging brackets. I intend sorting the rear one whilst fitting the heel board repair panel, but I set about doing the front one.

Firstly I made a cardboard template and transferred it to a scrap of metal

A1A55CC1-09EB-4197-8A13-CD3A0D3942F0_zps

Then a trial fit. After a bit of filing it looked like this

1B37C89E-CFF0-4FC5-A9AC-DCC4E8011044_zps

Then tacked into place. I turned up a lip on the metal to fix it to the fitch but that won't get welded til the fitch repair panels fitted.

1C8779A0-52F4-44C5-9DDF-860D0CD1DA17_zps

Darren, nice piece of fabrictation and the tack welds look spot on for penetration from the underside did they show at all on the upper side? I am no expert get all my tips here its a great helpful Forum as well.

 

Apart rom the tricky ones, I have / am making a lot of my own repair pieces, it means everything is taking twice as long but its satisfying when it works :-)

 

The key to good welding is heat management (you learnt part with the blow throughs) when welding thin metal AKA Mini Body Panels my Mig is one the lowest setting but I sometimes find it a little to cold and the next setting up is too hot so to get around this I often use a Gas Blow Torch to pre heat the are that I am welding, I have had some great results. Sometimes if the weld is too hot you can cool things down with a wet rag or use a Heat Sink such as a Piece of flattened Copper Pipe or brass.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

P.S. Why did you stop the Van or could you not resist the new Mini :-)


Edited by JonnyAlpha, 24 June 2014 - 01:50 PM.


#47 JonnyAlpha

JonnyAlpha

    Up Into Fourth

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,341 posts
  • Location: North Devon
  • Local Club: Exmoor Minis

Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:55 PM

Then I welded fully around the edge. My weldings not brilliant, but with the amount of practice I will get doing this car I'm hoping it will get better. I did this as a series of pulses. I found out to my expense tho that I need to wait for it to cool a bit longer between the pulses, because I burnt threw in a couple of places where I was rushing. I'm not sure I've got the best settings on the mig either. I think a lot of the skill of welding is knowing how to set the machine correctly in the first place. Unfortunately I'm not experienced enough to recognise what needs adjusting when it's not going right. Having said that tho, I'm getting on a lot better since I got my new welder. It's a Lincoln electric compact 185, so well boss of the job. I've wound the power down to 2 and wire speeds on 3. It did spit a bit in a place or two but I think it may have been because I didn't clean all the underseal residue from the inside and it had a habit of catching fire. Lol

Anyway it's in and a bit of a milestone for me, being the first repair. I got the high spots ground off the weld and gave it a couple of coats of zinc. Doesn't look too bad, The seam sealer will make it look even better. The inside has a nice bead of weld tho so it's penetrated ok and I'm happy it's strong enough.

05767456-D983-4FFF-991D-D8B5B4DCFF27_zps

Like I said in my other thread its all about heat management and also practice on some similar thickness pieces of scrap to get the settings correct before diving in. Take your time and don't try and rush. 

For your first repair its excellent, you should take a look at my first welding - Pigeon Snot Shocking!!! All been replace now though, my last Butt Welding was pretty slick :-) Just welded in a new LH Floor Pan and my Gas ran out just as I finished - good timing :-)

 

Keep it up :-)



#48 DiscoDarren

DiscoDarren

    Mini Mad

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 136 posts
  • Location: Billinghay, Lincolnshire

Posted 24 June 2014 - 06:47 PM

nice going Darren. I feel your pain with that arch mate. Just finished removing the back seat brace panel (the panel you lean against when you sit in the back seat) from a donor shell. They really made sure that was on there! seam welds, spot welds and all that. Mine also had a few seam welds between the seat brace and arch.
 
When i split the seam between the quarter panel and arch, i got a thin cutting disc and cut a groove around the radius of the arch from under the arch cutting through all of the spot welds which made things easier.
 
Oh and good luck with the other side!
 
Ben


Thanks for checking in on progress. I did the same as you with the quarter panel. Been cleaning up the raggy bits that were left on the lip of the quarter panel earlier today. Done the same with the brackets.
9023405C-1C29-44CE-BAE8-928C9984B6B8_zps

I did that bracket first with a grinding disc, but decided to switch to flapper wheel to do the rest. I'm a bit heavy handed sometimes and I don't want to thin the metal.

#49 DiscoDarren

DiscoDarren

    Mini Mad

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 136 posts
  • Location: Billinghay, Lincolnshire

Posted 24 June 2014 - 06:59 PM

At long last I can finally report my first batch of panels have arrived. But not until yesterday, so none are on the car yet. They're only magnum panels so I might have a bit of fun making them fit. The one I was dreading the most ie the door steps, don't look too bad. The folds look pretty square and true, however there's a bit of a ripple on the curve where it meets the pillar, nothing a bit of filler won't sort tho.
Think I've ordered the wrong outer sills tho. I will take a picture and post it up at some point, but I think I will end up chopping about 2inches off there width.
I also ordered myself a joggler, because after a lot of helpful responses to my "to joggle or not to joggle" post, I've decided to put a step in the edge of the floor panel for the joint with the new inner sill. The joggler arrived today so might have a play on some scraps of metal later.
Waiting for my panels has really held up progress, but on Wednesday I did manage to get my first bit of welding and fabrication done on the car. My floor pans were in pretty good shape apart from around the slinging brackets. I intend sorting the rear one whilst fitting the heel board repair panel, but I set about doing the front one.
Firstly I made a cardboard template and transferred it to a scrap of metalA1A55CC1-09EB-4197-8A13-CD3A0D3942F0_zps
Then a trial fit. After a bit of filing it looked like this1B37C89E-CFF0-4FC5-A9AC-DCC4E8011044_zps
Then tacked into place. I turned up a lip on the metal to fix it to the fitch but that won't get welded til the fitch repair panels fitted.1C8779A0-52F4-44C5-9DDF-860D0CD1DA17_zps

Darren, nice piece of fabrictation and the tack welds look spot on for penetration from the underside did they show at all on the upper side? I am no expert get all my tips here its a great helpful Forum as well.
 
Apart rom the tricky ones, I have / am making a lot of my own repair pieces, it means everything is taking twice as long but its satisfying when it works :-)
 
The key to good welding is heat management (you learnt part with the blow throughs) when welding thin metal AKA Mini Body Panels my Mig is one the lowest setting but I sometimes find it a little to cold and the next setting up is too hot so to get around this I often use a Gas Blow Torch to pre heat the are that I am welding, I have had some great results. Sometimes if the weld is too hot you can cool things down with a wet rag or use a Heat Sink such as a Piece of flattened Copper Pipe or brass.
 
Keep up the good work.
 
P.S. Why did you stop the Van or could you not resist the new Mini :-)

Will have to check out the link for welding tips, thanks and thanks for having a look here. using a copper heat sink sounds worth a try. With regard to the van, it started out as a ten minute make over, or at least that's what I was hoping. I didn't have a garge or half as many tools as I do now. I did quite a bit but soon realised it needs a lot more work than I thought. I guess I got out my depth really. I wasn't confident enough to tackle a lot of stuff that needed doing. 20years ago when I got stuck there wasn't a miniforum to turn to for help.

But yes I couldn't resist the saloon. Even though it too has turned into a lot more work than planed, it's still a load less than the van needs. I'm using the saloon as a practice piece, then I hope to start from scratch again with the van. Not sure on the time scale yet tho. Lol.

#50 DiscoDarren

DiscoDarren

    Mini Mad

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 136 posts
  • Location: Billinghay, Lincolnshire

Posted 25 June 2014 - 01:12 AM

Got a bit more progress to report. As I said earlier I've managed to tidy up the mess that was left from removing the rear inner arch. While i was at it, I drilled out the welds and removed one of the wheel arch stiffener bracket altogether. This will allow me to replace the rear half of the boot floor, when I get round to it.

I offered up my new arch panel to check the fit.... Basically it doesn't fit, it's not until you see for yourself that you realise how bad these cheap pattern panels really are. Where the back pan of the arch is formed to fit around the shocker, is at least an inch to far forward. God knows how I'm gonna rectify that. I might even stick them on eBay and get heritage ones instead.

My next job was going to be making and welding a new lip on the boot floor but I've temporary put that on hold. I want to get my heel board end back in and hang an old subframe off if. Hopefully I can then put a shocker up in the arch to check clearances etc with this rubbish cheapo arch as I try to make it fit.

So before I do the heel board end repair there's a little bit of rear floor to take care of. A piece about 100mm square that was behind the rear slinging mount. Here's some pictures of my work, cut out and fine tuned to fit with a quick file.

5EF75053-B9EA-407D-AD35-36ACDA769AB4_zps

I ordered some inter grips for doing jobs like this but they haven't arrived yet so still using mole grips. Tacked in pretty easily tho


3968A5C5-FC82-49C8-A58B-FA6E7D8707DF_zps

Being brave and showing you the welding before it got cleaned up. Any tips for a novice welder are greatfully received

9970755B-0B4C-484D-B260-52E41AEF3E8F_zps

Then after a bit of a clean up and a quick coat of zinc primer

16FEA958-18B2-4A3A-9F60-975D7155595F_zps

I won't bother trimming the top edge off till I fit the inner sill

#51 DiscoDarren

DiscoDarren

    Mini Mad

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 136 posts
  • Location: Billinghay, Lincolnshire

Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:48 AM

Had a few hours on the mini again this evening - was hoping for a full day, but that didn't happen. I decided I was going to stick at it till the passenger side heel board end repair was done. I started by fitting a stripped down rear subframe back on the car so I could offer up and mark my cut on the repair piece. I soon realised that putting the subframe back on leaves no room to work, and I can now see why so many people on here have made themselves a jig. I didn't really have any materials to make one - certainly not one that bolts up to all 4 fixing locations. What I did manage to find tho was a pair of rusty old trunnions and a equally rusty length of inch box. Using my subframe as a reference I welded the two trunnions to the bar.

8DA8F2B3-CFDE-41BE-8BC7-733749BC49D7_zps

I realise my bar only really gives me the correct width, so sets the position in 1 axis rather than all 3. So with this in mind I am only really going to use it while I mark up the new panel. Which is what I did. Once cut and tweaked a bit, I clamped it in with my shiny new intergrips. Then I put the subframe back on to check the bolt holes line up. Just a little tap with the hammer and all was in line. I gave it a couple of tacks where I could reach before removing the subframe again. Then I tacked along the butt joint. I struggled to get a picture, because it's dark this end of my garage and it's in shadow. I must get another light so I can see to work this late at night.

16C1A8D3-4C50-4DE2-9E7F-515D6712B0E2_zps

It was then I realised I'd not drilled any of my holes for the plug welds but I used a spot weld drill and did them in place. With all the plugs welded up I then fully welded the butt joint. I was really struggling to see where I was aiming before the arc struck, which didn't help. Also ended up drilling and welding a few extra plugs because I wasn't happy with all of them. I had struggled to clamp the two pieces tightly together prior to welding. I need to get a pair of mole grips with a bigger jaw. It was only on the lip that attaches to the boot floor tho, so I was able to run a seam of weld round the edge as well. I will have to get a picture of the finished job when it's daylight. I couldn't resist offering up the inner sill to see how it looks now the heel boards back together.

0D27241B-EC80-428E-BBB4-5C1962CD15E9_zps

It needs to go about 5mm further back, but the untrimmed edge of the patch I did in the rear floor is stopping it at the minute. Other than that it looks to be a pretty good fit, shame the rear arch tub doesn't line up quite so well.

I think the next job will be the boot floor, I've got the rear half as a repair panel, but that will probably be Friday.

#52 Ben_O

Ben_O

    Mill Road Garage

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,000 posts
  • Location: Isle of Wight

Posted 27 June 2014 - 03:34 PM

Looking good darren.

 

I know what you mean about working in shadows. I only have the one strip light at the back of my garage and while that does a good job at lighting the whole place up, it can be a bit gloomy down the front. I have just been given a 6ft strip light so thats going up the front  and hopefully will help matters

 

Where did you get your inner sill panel?

 

Ben



#53 DiscoDarren

DiscoDarren

    Mini Mad

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 136 posts
  • Location: Billinghay, Lincolnshire

Posted 27 June 2014 - 09:31 PM

Looking good darren.
 
I know what you mean about working in shadows. I only have the one strip light at the back of my garage and while that does a good job at lighting the whole place up, it can be a bit gloomy down the front. I have just been given a 6ft strip light so thats going up the front  and hopefully will help matters
 
Where did you get your inner sill panel?
 
Ben


It's only a magnum one Ben. I ordered a pair off eBay, they were £24 each inc delivery. Inner and outer sills seem ok but the other panels are a very questionable fit. I've started doing the boot floor this afternoon and It's miles out. But as the old saying goes "you pay your money and take your choice". I wouldn't have been able to afford heritage panels all round, although I intend to use them on the front end, but I think I might of been better off using m machine stuff rather than magnum.

#54 Ben_O

Ben_O

    Mill Road Garage

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,000 posts
  • Location: Isle of Wight

Posted 27 June 2014 - 09:39 PM

I have Magnum front floors and found the fit ok. The only difference being, the flutes were not wide and flat enough. ore rounded but i reshaped them myself and although i have only fitted the drivers side so far, it looks fine.

 

I personally won't be using any heritage panels on mine apart from the scuttle and dash top rail as i think they are way overpriced and not that great considering.

 

Don't know if you have seen my thread lately but i have just got a load of used body panels to use on mine which i think is the cheaper way forward without having to use nasty cheap panels.

 

Definitely give m machine a go, i have had a few parts from them and they are great. They look like they made them to order. Such a personal touch i think and the quality is great



#55 myredmini

myredmini

    My Mummy Says It's OK

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,186 posts
  • Name: Dan
  • Location: Teesside
  • Local Club: BOG MOG

Posted 27 June 2014 - 09:47 PM

Very nice work, welds look good. Those inner sills are really good value for money I have fitted them to mine, and looks great!

 

Keep it up!



#56 DiscoDarren

DiscoDarren

    Mini Mad

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 136 posts
  • Location: Billinghay, Lincolnshire

Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:33 PM

Very nice work, welds look good. Those inner sills are really good value for money I have fitted them to mine, and looks great!
 
Keep it up!


Thanks dan, I'm pleased with how it's going at the minute. I just get a bit disheartened when things don't fit right. Have you used magnum panels throughout your mini?

#57 DiscoDarren

DiscoDarren

    Mini Mad

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 136 posts
  • Location: Billinghay, Lincolnshire

Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:46 PM

I have Magnum front floors and found the fit ok. The only difference being, the flutes were not wide and flat enough. ore rounded but i reshaped them myself and although i have only fitted the drivers side so far, it looks fine.
 
I personally won't be using any heritage panels on mine apart from the scuttle and dash top rail as i think they are way overpriced and not that great considering.
 
Don't know if you have seen my thread lately but i have just got a load of used body panels to use on mine which i think is the cheaper way forward without having to use nasty cheap panels.
 
Definitely give m machine a go, i have had a few parts from them and they are great. They look like they made them to order. Such a personal touch i think and the quality is great


Yes, I've been following your thread and seen how much you've managed to salvage....great work!

I might have to reconsider choosing heritage front end panels then if they still aren't great. I assumed all their stuff was a perfect fit. There's certainly a lot of difference in price and I'm afraid my budget is tight at the minute. Everybody seems to speak highly of m machine.

#58 Ben_O

Ben_O

    Mill Road Garage

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,000 posts
  • Location: Isle of Wight

Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:59 PM

Heritage is the best fit available but the presses are wearing out so they are not as good as they could be. There have also been some complaints about rust under the e-coat on some panes.

 

I was advised to get the heritage scuttle as the non genuine one is not formed correctly and leads to leaking windscreens.

 

Again, give M Machine a go. They have great customer service and the panels are good.

 

Ben



#59 myredmini

myredmini

    My Mummy Says It's OK

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,186 posts
  • Name: Dan
  • Location: Teesside
  • Local Club: BOG MOG

Posted 27 June 2014 - 11:10 PM

I have used genuine scuttle panel, genuine rear valance and rear valance closing panels, gen rear arch/companion bin close out panels and genuine outer sills. Non gen front floor pans, doorsteps, inner sills and full front end. I have a load of recent pictures of my build but finding the time to sit and upload them onto my project log isnt easy haha. I have nearly completed the underside of mine then will be 2k zinc epoxy primed, stone chipped and painted in 2k body colour.

#60 DiscoDarren

DiscoDarren

    Mini Mad

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 136 posts
  • Location: Billinghay, Lincolnshire

Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:53 AM

I have used genuine scuttle panel, genuine rear valance and rear valance closing panels, gen rear arch/companion bin close out panels and genuine outer sills. Non gen front floor pans, doorsteps, inner sills and full front end. I have a load of recent pictures of my build but finding the time to sit and upload them onto my project log isnt easy haha. I have nearly completed the underside of mine then will be 2k zinc epoxy primed, stone chipped and painted in 2k body colour.


Just spent nearly 2 hrs reading your project thread, some really good work there! I see you've used a mix of heritage and patterned panels. I guess it's down to experience knowing which cheaper ones you can get away with and where it's worth paying the extra. I've got some photos to upload later and you'll see why I wish I'd dug a bit deeper in my pocket for the boot floor and rear arches...!!





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: roundnose

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Mini Spares