118 replies to this topic

[campaj1]

^^ as above. Also, the Rocketman concept quite possibly made the classic Jaguar mistake: i.e. to overpromise to fans with a concept.

[humph]

As a MINI fan I think my current R56 will be my last, as the next new car I purchase will not be an F56. I hate the interior and dont like the xterior too much either. There are more negative comments than positive from the MINI fraternity. BMW should have listened to the people that will be buying it....................

 

Interesting isn't it? We use the same classic and MINI sites, and so far there seems to be more positivity about the styling of this model from the classic fraternity! Have I woken up in an alternative reality?

[mab01uk]

 

As a MINI fan I think my current R56 will be my last, as the next new car I purchase will not be an F56. I hate the interior and dont like the xterior too much either. There are more negative comments than positive from the MINI fraternity. BMW should have listened to the people that will be buying it....................

 

Interesting isn't it? We use the same classic and MINI sites, and so far there seems to be more positivity about the styling of this model from the classic fraternity! Have I woken up in an alternative reality?

 

 

I personally like the F56 as an evolution in shape but quite revoulutionary below the surface in technology.....but then i am a mechanical designer and know most people don't like change initially, all designers know this as you have to stay one step ahead while the buying public catch up or loose your market share to 'safe blandness' as Ford once did with the last of their Escort range in the 1990's after using reactions from customer clinics......before later launching the radical at the time Ford Focus.......which after much initial critisism from traditional Escort buyers was a great success..

We heard the same comments from classic Mini enthusiasts when the 2001 R50 new MINI appeared and again from R50/53 MINI owners when the R56 appeared in 2007.......many now own and love their R56 andd I'm sure will wonder what all the fuss was about when they get used to the benefits of an F56 and actually drive one!

 

Tanya as I,m sure you know a large part of car ownership for many today is not just transport from A to B but in 'pride of ownership' and build quality, image, heritage, etc...... that is what a prestige brand is all about and why you pay the extra and is why the emerging countries like China and India want British (& German) brands with heritage like Range Rover, Jaguar, MINI and BMW, Mercedes, etc. 

eg. Honda, Nissan and Toyota could build a car as good as a Ferrari or a Porshe but it would never have the history and heritage to go with it.......unless they bought the company like Tata bought Jaguar/Land Rover.

Edited by mab01uk, 19 November 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[Tanya]

 

 

 

 

All that proves is that john cooper was a businessman who agreed to BMW using his name in return for money. Again, its good business for both. But that doesn't change the history. John cooper can't have any input into the latest models as he sadly died several years ago. It's purely a marketing strategy, it shows the power of the cooper minis in our automotive heritage but that doesn't reflect on the new mini. That doesn't make BMW a bad company, as I said above their duty is to the shareholders and they are doing that very well. But there is no engineering lineage between the two cars (or multiple cars now with all the additions) and this can never be changed. That is why the relationship is fundamentally different to that of say the escort and focus. Whether that is good, bad or indifferent depends on your point of view. I think BMW have been very clever and its good that a few jobs have been kept in Britain, but BMW asset stripped Rover and left a lot of workers without a future or a pension so they will undoubtedly have a view on this. Whether that is relevant to anyone looking at buying the car depends how important they feel that way of dealing was.

 
It was actually British owners BAe and their property arm Arlington Securities who asset stripped Rover over 5 years demolishing most of the Cowley site to the ground before selling the land off as a retail park and it was actually the MG Rover Phoenix Four who robbed the pensions, etc......BMW invested in Cowley and new models unlike the British management who ran it into the ground.....read the books and the facts first.http://www.theguardi...r-rover-workers

I don't want to take this thread off topic any further, that's not fair. Suffice to say I don't need to read articles to know what happened. I work with people who were there, some of my family were there. The Phoenix group are seen by them as little more than scum but it was BMW who caused the problems, the rest was just a snowball that couldn't be stopped. The common thing they all say is why didn't they stick with Honda. Would it have worked out any better? Who knows? I have to admit it does always strike me as slightly ironic that so may people fit Honda engines in their minis. It does leave you with a sense of what if?

Personally, I'm grateful that BAe sold Rover Group to BMW rather than Honda, but I guess that would be an obvious statement for me in Oxford and I may feel a little different if I lived in the West Midlands. I'm not at all sure that things would have been better with Honda, my person feeling is that they may have been worse. Was it ever possible for Longbridge to be sustainable at the size it was? Would it have been better for Alchemy to have bought Longbridge from BMW as originally planned before the public outcry that lead to the Phoenix Four buying it? I think in 2000 there was a lot of heart ruling heads going on, which I can completely understand but I do think this wasn't good for Longbridge in the long run.

I certainly feel that things couldn't have worked out better for Mini. Would Honda have seen the value in the Mini brand that BMW saw and would they have valued Mini's heritage in the way that BMW has, who knows. Certainly we are now in a position where the Mini name lives on in a very real way (not just with enthusiasts ), we have a good Mini/MINI scene and the masses do recognise Mini through MINI and do relate to Mini that way.

Yes, it is frustrating that BAe sold North and South Works in 1992, effectively leaving Cowley landlocked with little scope for expansion, hence some MINI production taking place in the Netherlands.

Edited by Tanya, 22 November 2013 - 01:04 PM.

[Tanya]

Tanya as I,m sure you know a large part of car ownership for many today is not just transport from A to B but in 'pride of ownership' and build quality, image, heritage, etc...... that is what a prestige brand is all about and why you pay the extra and is why the emerging countries like China and India want British (& German) brands with heritage like Range Rover, Jaguar, MINI and BMW, Mercedes, etc. 
eg. Honda, Nissan and Toyota could build a car as good as a Ferrari or a Porshe but it would never have the history and heritage to go with it.......unless they bought the company like Tata bought Jaguar/Land Rover.

Yes, I know and I guess if you have just one or two cars and they are your daily drivers you feel differently. However, I have a host of rusting and unreliable ARG cars that I drive regularly so have my fill of 'Pride of Ownership' that way! However, my pride does take a bashing now and then when they misbehave and it is a little embarrassing to have to say to concerned passersby 'don't worry, I'm used to breaking down'. I'm also a little fed up with being told by several member of the Maestro & Montego Owners Club 'they all do that sir' when I'm trying to fix a problem. Still, somehow I manage to feel a little proud now and again when they allow me!

[jamesmpi]

cooper S has a 189bhp.. not to be sniffed at

Cooper S with the sports auto gearbox has launch control. Goes like stink.... That will embarrass many cars off the line, and unlike the Clio RS which too has flappy paddle auto, the Bini up shifts very quickly and rev matches on the way down!

Edited by jamesmpi, 19 November 2013 - 06:35 PM.

[jamesmpi]

 

As a MINI fan I think my current R56 will be my last, as the next new car I purchase will not be an F56. I hate the interior and dont like the xterior too much either. There are more negative comments than positive from the MINI fraternity. BMW should have listened to the people that will be buying it....................

 
Interesting isn't it? We use the same classic and MINI sites, and so far there seems to be more positivity about the styling of this model from the classic fraternity! Have I woken up in an alternative reality?
 

We heard the same comments from classic Mini enthusiasts when the 2001 R50 new MINI appeared and again from R50/53 MINI owners when the R56 appeared in 2007.......many now own and love their R56 andd I'm sure will wonder what all the fuss was about when they get used to the benefits of an F56 and actually drive one!
 

Compared to the R56, the F56 is massively different and a giant leap forward for MINI.
What people should remember is that much of the mechanical equipment will be carryover to the new front wheel drive BMW (widely reported by the likes of Autocar etc), which for MINI is huge benefit as BMW would never put lesser standard parts in their own brand, meaning the new F56 is excellent to drive and has some great technology incorporated into it. (Variable dampers, latest generation of engines etc)

Edited by jamesmpi, 19 November 2013 - 07:06 PM.

[Badboytunes]

As a MINI fan I think my current R56 will be my last, as the next new car I purchase will not be an F56. I hate the interior and dont like the xterior too much either. There are more negative comments than positive from the MINI fraternity. BMW should have listened to the people that will be buying it....................

 
Interesting isn't it? We use the same classic and MINI sites, and so far there seems to be more positivity about the styling of this model from the classic fraternity! Have I woken up in an alternative reality?

We heard the same comments from classic Mini enthusiasts when the 2001 R50 new MINI appeared and again from R50/53 MINI owners when the R56 appeared in 2007.......many now own and love their R56 andd I'm sure will wonder what all the fuss was about when they get used to the benefits of an F56 and actually drive one!

Compared to the R56, the F56 is massively different and a giant leap forward for MINI.
What people should remember is that much of the mechanical equipment will be carryover to the new front wheel drive BMW (widely reported by the likes of Autocar etc), which for MINI is huge benefit as BMW would never put lesser standard parts in their own brand, meaning the new F56 is excellent to drive and has some great technology incorporated into it. (Variable dampers, latest generation of engines etc)

But it still looks utter *******......... The dash for example is pure BMW with the contours. Looks like it been pulled from the 3 series. The buttons on the steering wheel look like an old 05 reg merc. The tetchy stuff might be good but it's wrapped up in an awful final product. Why did they move the petrol filler,? 5 stud hubs means you can't use r56 wheels for example.

[mab01uk]

BMW Group Bracknell UK Launch today.

Tanya's photos look pretty good to me but like all cars it is down to personal taste in the end but it is surprising how often the best new designs take a while to get used to........after all John Cooper always had the story about Aurelio Lampredi, famous chief designer for Ferrari, exclaiming about the 1959 Mini, that ‘if it were not for the fact that it is so ugly, I’d shoot myself if that isn’t the car of the future’

Edited by mab01uk, 19 November 2013 - 11:37 PM.

[HarrysMini]

It looks good from the side, and I can live with the front, but the rear just makes me want to be physically sick. What were they thinking with those lights?!

I don't have a problem with the interior either. 

 

Obviously, the styling of the car is absolutely down to personal taste, some people will like it, some not. We just have to live with that. I'm sure underneath the horrible styling there is a brilliant car, but I'm afraid I just would not want to be seen in one of those. 

 

I guess I just won't be buying a brand new MINI in the future.

 

Shame.

[jamesmpi]

As a MINI fan I think my current R56 will be my last, as the next new car I purchase will not be an F56. I hate the interior and dont like the xterior too much either. There are more negative comments than positive from the MINI fraternity. BMW should have listened to the people that will be buying it....................

 
Interesting isn't it? We use the same classic and MINI sites, and so far there seems to be more positivity about the styling of this model from the classic fraternity! Have I woken up in an alternative reality?

We heard the same comments from classic Mini enthusiasts when the 2001 R50 new MINI appeared and again from R50/53 MINI owners when the R56 appeared in 2007.......many now own and love their R56 andd I'm sure will wonder what all the fuss was about when they get used to the benefits of an F56 and actually drive one!

Compared to the R56, the F56 is massively different and a giant leap forward for MINI.
What people should remember is that much of the mechanical equipment will be carryover to the new front wheel drive BMW (widely reported by the likes of Autocar etc), which for MINI is huge benefit as BMW would never put lesser standard parts in their own brand, meaning the new F56 is excellent to drive and has some great technology incorporated into it. (Variable dampers, latest generation of engines etc)

Why did they move the petrol filler,? 5 stud hubs means you can't use r56 wheels for example.

Like I said, to commonise between the new front wheel drive BMWs.....

[mab01uk]

 

 

 

 

 

As a MINI fan I think my current R56 will be my last, as the next new car I purchase will not be an F56. I hate the interior and dont like the xterior too much either. There are more negative comments than positive from the MINI fraternity. BMW should have listened to the people that will be buying it....................

 
Interesting isn't it? We use the same classic and MINI sites, and so far there seems to be more positivity about the styling of this model from the classic fraternity! Have I woken up in an alternative reality?

We heard the same comments from classic Mini enthusiasts when the 2001 R50 new MINI appeared and again from R50/53 MINI owners when the R56 appeared in 2007.......many now own and love their R56 andd I'm sure will wonder what all the fuss was about when they get used to the benefits of an F56 and actually drive one!

Compared to the R56, the F56 is massively different and a giant leap forward for MINI.
What people should remember is that much of the mechanical equipment will be carryover to the new front wheel drive BMW (widely reported by the likes of Autocar etc), which for MINI is huge benefit as BMW would never put lesser standard parts in their own brand, meaning the new F56 is excellent to drive and has some great technology incorporated into it. (Variable dampers, latest generation of engines etc)

Why did they move the petrol filler,? 5 stud hubs means you can't use r56 wheels for example.

Like I said, to commonise between the new front wheel drive BMWs.....

 

 

There are currently no front wheel drive BMW's as all BMW's in the range up to now have been RWD including smallest 1-Series hatch............so BMW have said it is actually the small BMW's (like the future 1-Series range) which are going to be sharing the new F56 MINI platform to commonise component parts where possible and bring the economies of scale in manufacture......the chassis has been primarily designed and tuned to drive like a MINI, while the BMW 1-Series engineers will have to adapt and fine tune the MINI platform to drive like a 1-Series for example.

 

This is now common practice.....eg. the new Fiat 500 shares its platform with the Fiat Panda and the Ford KA but they all drive quite differently on the road, while the VW Beetle uses the VW Golf platform which is shared by many VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda cars.....

 

From Motoring File:

“Enter the F56 MINI. The B37 and B38 3 and 4 cylinders were developed by BMW with the MINI in mind from the beginning. How did MINI make it financially viable? BMW believes in the MINI brand so much that they’ve decided to change course and develop a front wheel drive architecture that will not only underpin all MINIs, but also small BMW models moving forward. This will allow MINI to remain profitable while taking advantage of more BMW technology. When I asked MINI representatives if they were concerned about MINIs being too much like small BMWs, they turned the tables. Since the chassis and drivetrain is intended first and foremost for MINI, they consider the small BMW models to be along for the ride. Therefore the question should really be, how will those small BMWs drive and perform like BMWs? This could also be taken as a shot across the bow for all those naysayers who think that MINI has gotten too BMW-like over the years."

Horsepower:
– Cooper: 134bhp (up from 121)
– Cooper S: 189bhp (up from 184)

Torque:
- Cooper: 162lb-ft [220Nm] (up from 114; a 30% increase)
- Cooper S: 207lb-ft [281Nm] (up from 191)

http://www.motoringf...we-go-hands-on/

Edited by mab01uk, 20 November 2013 - 06:31 PM.

[Tanya]

Kevin Morley (former MD of Rover Cars) and Keith Adams (AROnline etc) speaking on Radio Oxford from Cowley for the MINI launch last Monday.  Go to 1:08:30 - http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/p01kp00z.  I think the interview will only be available until Sunday evening.  

 

[mab01uk]

 

 

Love the new design of centre toggle switches.......apparently it was very difficult to retain this traditional Mini feature while conforming to latest safety rules and regs.

 

Edited by mab01uk, 20 November 2013 - 11:57 PM.

[Chris1992]

just when i thought it couldnt get any worse... fair play to BMW, the first BINI was actually not that bad because it was kept simple. this has just been over done though. its ugly as hell... not to mention the countryman. every time i see one of those i want to smash my face into the nearest lamp post. imho it is literally the ugliest car ive ever seen.

 

i also get the feeling that BMW are under the impression that classic mini enthusiasts everywhere are worshiping them for everything they are doing regarding the new mini. i see what they are trying to do, but did they honestly think that throwing in all these links to the classic (like launching it on  Issigonis' birthday) would be happily received among the classic mini community? 

 

not sure if im making sense, but thats my rant on the subject anyway lol