948 replies to this topic

[Viktor]

Okay, so after the above photos, I have a few questions for you guys:

 

1.- I'm considering replacing the front end. It is okay, but there's some rust underneath, so I thought to remove it and have a nice fresh front end. The inner wings are fine, so I will retain those. I think replacing the front end is the sensible thing to do, thoughts?

2.- The A-panels have holes and rust, I didn't want to change them, but I realized they need to go. Are these easy to replace? Which is the correct sequence to put the whole front back together? Panel by panel, or all in one go?

3.- The scuttle panel is very damaged in both sides, but also the gutter in the bonnet area. The sensible thing to do should be replacing the whole scuttle panel, but I'm so scared about not being able to put the windscreen back again if this repair is not perfect. Some advice here guys, thanks.

4.- I'm going to buy new panels for my front end: outer wings, A-panels, front end and potentially the scuttle panel as well. I have read about genuine panels VS Magnum / M-Machine panels and the opinions are quite diverse. It is obvious that genuine panels should be better, but they cost double the price in relation to the other non-genuine. What is your experience on this? Just to be clear, I'd like my Mini to look good, but I don't want to break the bank to achieve it, and I'm not pursuing prizes in car shows once the car is done. Your views on this would be greatly appreciated. However, my budget is tight, so it is almost certain that I will go for the cheap option in terms of panels replacement.

 

Thanks in advance for your comments.

 

Cheers.

 

Victor.

Edited by Viktor, 06 June 2021 - 04:56 PM.

[Viktor]

Sorry to say, but it does not seems to a good idea to drill through both panel at the spot welds. You should buy spot weld drill bit and drill only one panel - the front wings in this case. Now you have to weld in  the holes and grind back the welds on the inner wings.

Hi Gaspen, you are right mate, I learned that this afternoon. Now I have more work to do welding those holes back and grinding them down. 

[Viktor]

 

Sorry to say, but it does not seems to a good idea to drill through both panel at the spot welds. You should buy spot weld drill bit and drill only one panel - the front wings in this case. Now you have to weld in  the holes and grind back the welds on the inner wings.

Hi Gaspen, you are right mate, I learned that this afternoon. Now I have more work to do welding those holes back and grinding them down. 

 

Another option could be to put the new wings over the inner wings as they are, and then put the car upside down and weld the holes from underneath. That would be like a double spot weld...

[johnR]

I'd guess the trick with the scuttle panel replacement is plenty of measurements, but you could weld a piece of rod from the centre of the upper flange to an upsidedown 'u' shaped bracket placed over the original lower flange that would give you exact distance and orientation of the new panel? 

[gaspen]

As you I also made my first Mini last year. I bought only heritage panels but all of them needed less or more work. They say M-Machine panels are pretty good if you are in a budget. For me it is very difficult to order MM panels by telephone from Hungary....

 

I have to say the most difficult job was the front end. I almost gave up after hundreds of test-fit but finally it ended fine.

 

You have to screw the front subframe into its place because it will be postioning the front panel. My scuttle panel was in better shape then yours but I replaced it to heritage. The scuttle was the first that I welded in. After that I positioned the A-panel to the door for a nice door gap. The A-panel has a lip at the door-edge which you have to bend over the A-post. Don't weld anything until you are not satisfied with the gaps and joints ! Use pliers and/or self tapping screws !

 

When it is good you can start setup the front wings : they have to be fit to the front panel, to the A-panel, to the arc of the scuttle and you would like to achieve a good gap at the bonnet. That's all :)

 

After I was satisfied with the shape of front end I welded both wings to the front panel. Fortunately I have a spot-welder which I really recommend for you too. I placed this whole front into its place and spot-welded all around. At this stage you have a little "room" to adjust the wing-scuttle join. As you can see I marked the final positions with 2 piece of masking tape.

 

 IMG_20201230_211028.jpg   85.54K   3 downloads

 

For the windscreen aperture I welded some closed section to keep the distance.

 

 IMG_20200923_172148.jpg   79.83K   2 downloads

 

 

 

 

 

[gaspen]

 

 

Sorry to say, but it does not seems to a good idea to drill through both panel at the spot welds. You should buy spot weld drill bit and drill only one panel - the front wings in this case. Now you have to weld in  the holes and grind back the welds on the inner wings.

Hi Gaspen, you are right mate, I learned that this afternoon. Now I have more work to do welding those holes back and grinding them down. 

 

Another option could be to put the new wings over the inner wings as they are, and then put the car upside down and weld the holes from underneath. That would be like a double spot weld...

 

 

It is not impossible, but try to creep in there in with a welding shield on your head, in safety clothing and the welding gun in your hand :)

[Viktor]

I'd guess the trick with the scuttle panel replacement is plenty of measurements, but you could weld a piece of rod from the centre of the upper flange to an upsidedown 'u' shaped bracket placed over the original lower flange that would give you exact distance and orientation of the new panel? 

That sounds like good advice. I'm scared about fitting a new scuttle panel, but I don't think there's another way around it. Fingers crossed!

[sonscar]

Sounds counter intuitive but my layman's method is repair the doors first.Fitbthem at every opportunity to ensure good gaps.Buyblots of clamps and then buy some more.Buy some cleco? pins and drills to suit.Repair the bonnet and fit it regularly to help align the wings and scuttle.
Just my view but there is nothing wrong with the cheaper panels for dig,if you have to adjust a panel at all might as well be a cheap one.Fit things together as a unit before welding.
Finally this is my method and more experienced will have other ideas,you must enjoy the task.When this stops walk away,take a break,return another day.Have fun,Steve..

[Viktor]

As you I also made my first Mini last year. I bought only heritage panels but all of them needed less or more work. They say M-Machine panels are pretty good if you are in a budget. For me it is very difficult to order MM panels by telephone from Hungary....

 

I have to say the most difficult job was the front end. I almost gave up after hundreds of test-fit but finally it ended fine.

 

You have to screw the front subframe into its place because it will be postioning the front panel. My scuttle panel was in better shape then yours but I replaced it to heritage. The scuttle was the first that I welded in. After that I positioned the A-panel to the door for a nice door gap. The A-panel has a lip at the door-edge which you have to bend over the A-post. Don't weld anything until you are not satisfied with the gaps and joints ! Use pliers and/or self tapping screws !

 

When it is good you can start setup the front wings : they have to be fit to the front panel, to the A-panel, to the arc of the scuttle and you would like to achieve a good gap at the bonnet. That's all :)

 

After I was satisfied with the shape of front end I welded both wings to the front panel. Fortunately I have a spot-welder which I really recommend for you too. I placed this whole front into its place and spot-welded all around. At this stage you have a little "room" to adjust the wing-scuttle join. As you can see I marked the final positions with 2 piece of masking tape.

 

IMG_20201230_211028.jpg

 

For the windscreen aperture I welded some closed section to keep the distance.

 

IMG_20200923_172148.jpg

Hi Gaspen, that is helpful mate. My budget is limited, so I probably go for M-Machine panels.

 

If I'm keeping the inner wings, do I still need to bolt the front subframe in? I was thinking of welding a couple of square tube to the inner wings to fix their position before removing the old front end. That should give me the correct position for the new front end and wings?

 

For the scuttle, what you did looks like the best way to do it, to keep the windscreen dimensions un-altered.

 

All the posts and YouTube videos I have seen, they all say the same. Try 100s times until you are happy with the gaps and do not weld until you are fully satisfied! I would do the same. I don’t want to ruin the panels. It would take time, but I’m not in a rush.

 

No budget for a spot welder, but I will do spot welds with my MIG machine.

 

Thanks again for your comments, much appreciated.

 

Cheers.

 

Victor.

[sonscar]

Sounds counter intuitive but my layman's method is repair the doors first.Fitbthem at every opportunity to ensure good gaps.Buy lots of clamps and then buy some more.Buy some cleco? pins and drills to suit.Repair the bonnet and fit it regularly to help align the wings and scuttle.
Just my view but there is nothing wrong with the cheaper panels for dig,if you have to adjust a panel at all might as well be a cheap one.Fit things together as a unit before welding.
Finally this is my method and more experienced will have other ideas,you must enjoy the task.When this stops walk away,take a break,return another day.Have fun,Steve..

[Viktor]

Sounds counter intuitive but my layman's method is repair the doors first.Fitbthem at every opportunity to ensure good gaps.Buyblots of clamps and then buy some more.Buy some cleco? pins and drills to suit.Repair the bonnet and fit it regularly to help align the wings and scuttle.
Just my view but there is nothing wrong with the cheaper panels for dig,if you have to adjust a panel at all might as well be a cheap one.Fit things together as a unit before welding.
Finally this is my method and more experienced will have other ideas,you must enjoy the task.When this stops walk away,take a break,return another day.Have fun,Steve..

Hi Steve, good point about the doors, that is another task in the 'to do list'... Agreed it all needs to put back together to ensure the final result is good in terms of alignment and gaps. 

 

What am I doing??? Lol

 

Victor.

[gaspen]

If I'm keeping the inner wings, do I still need to bolt the front subframe in? I was thinking of welding a couple of square tube to the inner wings to fix their position before removing the old front end. That should give me the correct position for the new front end and wings?

 

Let's talk from the opposite approach : if you put in the front subframe into a finished car you want all the screw holes into position, right ?   

 

If you use your subframe to build up the front end you can be sure that all of your holes will fit.

 

I'd go crazy when I couldn't assemble my newly painted car because these kind of issues.

 

Keep in mind that the new panels are not the exact copies of the old ones. Any type of panel you buy it will need adjusting. On some points you will need to adjust the old panels also. The front subframe will not disturb you in the work but will help   

[Viktor]

If I'm keeping the inner wings, do I still need to bolt the front subframe in? I was thinking of welding a couple of square tube to the inner wings to fix their position before removing the old front end. That should give me the correct position for the new front end and wings?

 

Let's talk from the opposite approach : if you put in the front subframe into a finished car you want all the screw holes into position, right ?   

 

If you use your subframe to build up the front end you can be sure that all of your holes will fit.

 

I'd go crazy when I couldn't assemble my newly painted car because these kind of issues.

 

Keep in mind that the new panels are not the exact copies of the old ones. Any type of panel you buy it will need adjusting. On some points you will need to adjust the old panels also. The front subframe will not disturb you in the work but will help   

Awesome! That makes a lot of sense and will probably save me a lot of pain and frustration! Many thanks for the advice!

Cheers mate.

[Ben_O]

I'm on the end of the phone if you need any advice.

Pm me and I can give you my work number and have a chat about the procedures if that is any help to you?

 

It's all pretty straightforward so don't let the fear set in.

 

Cheers

Ben 

[Viktor]

I'm quite shocked about the quality of the repairs from the previous owner of my Mini. Some photos below...

 

 

 

Fron inside the car, in the same area:

 

 

It is my understanding that this area is part of the inner wing. Below circled in red is the portion of this panel that is in really bad condition. I believe it is possible to buy a repair panel for that area, as changing the whole inner wing seems to be a monumental task. I guess I can cut that out and put the repair panel in place. My big concern is the position of the door hinges fixing holes, I guess I need to get those positioned 100% perfect, otherwise the door will not be aligned.

 

 

Comments and advice really appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

Victor.