114 replies to this topic

[CityEPete]

not just minis Im afraid, makes my blood boil having had 2 classics stolen over the years
 http://www.ebay.co.u...VoAAOSw-0xYhM5B

Not sure how selling a rotten shell with the V5c is bad ?
If someone puts the vin on another shell that's up to them but can't see the sellers doing anything wrong here

If there's something salvageable but where do you draw the line? Look at the motorbikes on ebay, modern ones too, v5 and a chunk of frame, it's no different to selling a v5 on its own which isnt allowed even as automobilia.

[Rocket.]

not just minis Im afraid, makes my blood boil having had 2 classics stolen over the years
 http://www.ebay.co.u...VoAAOSw-0xYhM5B

Not sure how selling a rotten shell with the V5c is bad ?
If someone puts the vin on another shell that's up to them but can't see the sellers doing anything wrong here

If there's something salvageable but where do you draw the line? Look at the motorbikes on ebay, modern ones too, v5 and a chunk of frame, it's no different to selling a v5 on its own which isnt allowed even as automobilia.

You only have to look at some of the projects on here to see what wrecks some people repair

All I'm saying is that just because someone's selling a shell and a V5 doesn't make it illegal

[CityEPete]

No I agree if theres a shell, look at the mk1 Tom did on here!

Shell too far gone, nudge nudge wink wink isn't the same is it, could that mk1 escort really be saved in any realistic way without using a shell that would have already had a vin plate when it left dagenham?

I wish there was a legal way through the relevant owners clubs to give an age related id to shells or complete cars that have for whatever reason lost their id.

We have a problem with new shells being available which gives people a bullshiz way of saying it has been re shelled, putting the tax exempt vin on an mpi is not a re shell, lol

[mab01uk]

1969 Mini Cooper S

£47,000 BIN price .....Malta so rust free (but Mk2 not Mk3).

http://www.ebay.co.u...p4AAOSw4A5YoCyC

Edited by mab01uk, 14 February 2017 - 08:17 PM.

[CityEPete]

For 47k you'd think they'd at least get it out of the garage for the pictures......

[mab01uk]

not just minis Im afraid, makes my blood boil having had 2 classics stolen over the years

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...VoAAOSw-0xYhM5B

 

 

Wait a while and Mk1 Escort shells will probably be coming from China too......the Mk2 Escort shell below is already available on sale for £7000.......

Escort Mk2 Brand New Bodyshells:-

https://www.motorspo...Bodyshells.html

Edited by mab01uk, 14 February 2017 - 08:21 PM.

[Cooperman]

There will never be a consensus of opinion as to what constitutes a 'genuine' car.

There are not many of us still in the Mini game who were around doing things with Minis back in the 1960's. Sadly I was   .

Many of the successful race & rally cars were built up from a new or even a used, crashed, written off and bought back body-shell. They were accepted as genuine cars at the time and, indeed, much pro-Mini publicity was generated from their results. Even the Britax race and other championship winning cars were built up from parts. Were they not Cooper 'S's?

So many ordinary Cooper 'S's had to be re-shelled due to damage and/or rust, whilst others were converted by capable owners to full Cooper 'S' specification.

To me, if a car has a Cooper 'S' V5 and the car is, in every respect to a full-on Cooper 'S' specification & configuration, then it is a Cooper 'S'. What else can it be?

If there were some differences in the body-shell between a Mk.1 850 & a MK.1 'S' it might be different, but they are identical with only the gear-lever hole cut differently on the 997, 998 and 'S' variants.  It's just a hole in the floor for goodness sake. What if an original Cooper 'S' shell had been used to re-shell a 998 Cooper or an 850. Would the same 'it's a fake' attitude be applied?

Everyone goes on about the successes of the Mini in competition. The 4-lights spotlights on the later cars echo this heritage, but then as soon as the fact that virtually all the cars which created this aura were re-shelled, often into used 850 shells, these cars are deemed 'non-genuine'.

There is a great difference between re-shelling a genuine, but very rusty and damaged, Cooper 'S' into a re-built Mk.1 (or Mk.2 shell if appropriate) and 'ringing' an early car into a later car with lots of 'dodgy' parts then trying to pass it of as 'original.

We all need to keep an open mind and to be careful if buying a car for a lot of money. Just be sure you know what you are buying.

'.

Edited by Cooperman, 15 February 2017 - 03:52 PM.

[r3k1355]

 

not just minis Im afraid, makes my blood boil having had 2 classics stolen over the years
 
http://www.ebay.co.u...VoAAOSw-0xYhM5B
 

Not sure how selling a rotten shell with the V5c is bad ?

If someone puts the vin on another shell that's up to them but can't see the sellers doing anything wrong here

 

 

It's not illegal, but the winning bidder could take the vin and stick it in a stolen car.

Not the sellers problem granted, but I wouldn't be happy providing a clean Vin/V5 to some thieving scum.

[r3k1355]

To me, if a car has a Cooper 'S' V5 and the car is, in every respect to a full-on Cooper 'S' specification & configuration, then it is a Cooper 'S'. What else can it be?

If there were some differences in the body-shell between a Mk.1 850 & a MK.1 'S' it might be different, but they are identical with only the gear-lever hole cut differently on the 997, 998 and 'S' variants.  It's just a hole in the floor for goodness sake. What if an original Cooper 'S' shell had been used to re-shell a 998 Cooper of an 850. Would the same 'it's a fake' attitude be applied?

 

If the car is nothing more than a pile of common parts and a few factory go-faster bits then what makes it worth £40,000???

 

Things were done differently back in the old days, and especially with racing where anything go's as long as you can still compete.

but taking an 850 shell, ripping the VIN out and shoving in one from a Cooper S is still illegal.

 

Just because it was acceptable back then doesn't mean it's still acceptable today.

[Rocket.]

 

not just minis Im afraid, makes my blood boil having had 2 classics stolen over the years
 
http://www.ebay.co.u...VoAAOSw-0xYhM5B
 

Not sure how selling a rotten shell with the V5c is bad ?

If someone puts the vin on another shell that's up to them but can't see the sellers doing anything wrong here
 

 
It's not illegal, but the winning bidder could take the vin and stick it in a stolen car.
Not the sellers problem granted, but I wouldn't be happy providing a clean Vin/V5 to some thieving scum.

Exactly they could but doesn't necessarily mean they're going too.

Can't tar everyone with the same brush not everyone that buys a rotten old car is "thieving scum" as you so delicately put it

[r3k1355]

 

 

 

not just minis Im afraid, makes my blood boil having had 2 classics stolen over the years
 
http://www.ebay.co.u...VoAAOSw-0xYhM5B
 

Not sure how selling a rotten shell with the V5c is bad ?

If someone puts the vin on another shell that's up to them but can't see the sellers doing anything wrong here
 

 
It's not illegal, but the winning bidder could take the vin and stick it in a stolen car.
Not the sellers problem granted, but I wouldn't be happy providing a clean Vin/V5 to some thieving scum.

Exactly they could but doesn't necessarily mean they're going too.

Can't tar everyone with the same brush not everyone that buys a rotten old car is "thieving scum" as you so delicately put it

 

 

No not at all, just stating it is one of the possibilities, one of the more remote possibilities granted as many stolen cars are either stripped or exported.

[mab01uk]

 

To me, if a car has a Cooper 'S' V5 and the car is, in every respect to a full-on Cooper 'S' specification & configuration, then it is a Cooper 'S'. What else can it be?

If there were some differences in the body-shell between a Mk.1 850 & a MK.1 'S' it might be different, but they are identical with only the gear-lever hole cut differently on the 997, 998 and 'S' variants.  It's just a hole in the floor for goodness sake. What if an original Cooper 'S' shell had been used to re-shell a 998 Cooper of an 850. Would the same 'it's a fake' attitude be applied?

 

If the car is nothing more than a pile of common parts and a few factory go-faster bits then what makes it worth £40,000???

 

Things were done differently back in the old days, and especially with racing where anything go's as long as you can still compete.

but taking an 850 shell, ripping the VIN out and shoving in one from a Cooper S is still illegal.

 

Just because it was acceptable back then doesn't mean it's still acceptable today.

 

 

Too late.....most of the race, rallied and modded Cooper S, Escort Mexico's, etc around today that were restored or rebuilt as pristine classics in the 1980's onwards were based on more modest but rust free/undamaged 850 or Escort Mk1 shells......unless of course there is a fully documented history with photographs to prove complete originalty and therefore a premium price.

Edited by mab01uk, 15 February 2017 - 12:52 PM.

[r3k1355]

 

 

To me, if a car has a Cooper 'S' V5 and the car is, in every respect to a full-on Cooper 'S' specification & configuration, then it is a Cooper 'S'. What else can it be?

If there were some differences in the body-shell between a Mk.1 850 & a MK.1 'S' it might be different, but they are identical with only the gear-lever hole cut differently on the 997, 998 and 'S' variants.  It's just a hole in the floor for goodness sake. What if an original Cooper 'S' shell had been used to re-shell a 998 Cooper of an 850. Would the same 'it's a fake' attitude be applied?

 

If the car is nothing more than a pile of common parts and a few factory go-faster bits then what makes it worth £40,000???

 

Things were done differently back in the old days, and especially with racing where anything go's as long as you can still compete.

but taking an 850 shell, ripping the VIN out and shoving in one from a Cooper S is still illegal.

 

Just because it was acceptable back then doesn't mean it's still acceptable today.

 

 

Too late.....most of the race, rallied and modded Cooper S, Escort Mexico's, etc around today that were restored or rebuilt as pristine classics in the 1980's onwards were based on more modest but rust free/undamaged 850 or Escort Mk1 shells......unless of course there is a fully documented history with photographs to prove complete originalty and therefore a premium price.

 

 

Everyone is fully aware of that, and like I said when you go to buy something like that you take your chances.

 

but if I took a clean 60's 850 car, a box of bits out the back of my garage and a VIN off eBay, do you really think anyone would pay me £40,000+ for my Cooper S???

of course not, no-one in their right mind would buy that car if I was truthful about what I'd done.

 

Just because it has been done, or was common, or is likely others are like that doesn't mean it's acceptable for people to go around doing it now.

Edited by r3k1355, 15 February 2017 - 01:00 PM.

[paulrockliffe]

Isn't the issue that restoring the car from next to nothing is legal, BUT it would need an IVA that it wouldn't pass and it would lose the registration in any case.  So the car either goes back on the road without an IVA which is illegal, or it goes back on the road by ringing another car, or a stolen car, both of which are illegal.  If it's Tax exempt then there's potential for fraud by gaining a pecuniary advantage too.

 

Once the car is so far gone, it can't legally be put back on the road today, even if it could have been in the past and it's very difficult to prove.

 

Of course the risk is that someone pays a fortune for a log-book restoration that the DVLA have picked up from eBay and put on a list, so when it's taken for it's first MOT it's called in for IVA and ends up being either crushed, or never getting back on the road.  Most people don't understand this risk and there's nothing that can be done to mitigate.

[MIGLIACARS]

Blah blah blah

 

Here is the scenario.

 

Your at your mates   who knows diddly about cars!!!

sadly his uncle Billy has passed away, so your mate is a little sad.

But on the plus side he has left a box of stuff for your mate,

As a good pal you look through it for him as he is still sobbing.

 

 

Oh look what ive found a 1964 mk1 mini cooper s 970 logbook, as jack the cry baby knows sweat FA he says you can have it......

 

thankyou!!!!!   

 

 

 

So as your reading this thread you now know that a logbook is worth £7500 plus as its a 970s,

 

 

So do you

 

A. throw it in the bin. Knowing that you have done the right thing!!!!

 

B. send it off to the dvla informing them of your do-gooding church going <scout leader> ways.

 

or

 

like id do and I hope everyone else!!     

Sell the fu ker quick smart and treat yourself to what ever £7500 will buy you....

 

LET be honest!!!!!!!!!!